Discussion:
"Cubans drown in attempt to reach U.S." (Miami Herald) + Lippmnn preface
(demasiado antiguo para responder)
Barry Schier
2007-12-29 00:32:28 UTC
Permalink
M[iami] H[erald]: Cubans drown in attempt to reach U.S.
CubaNews Message #38908 of 38909

These Cubans should be understood to be what they are: victims of U.S.
policy toward Cuba, specifically the Cuban Adjustment Act, which gives
special rights, special privileges and special advantages to Cubans
whose feet touch U.S. soil. This provides a massive financial
incentive
to smugglers who charge upwards of $10,000 per person to bring these
desperate people to the United States. But they don't always manage to
get to the United States and so who knows how many are killed through
tragedies like this?

Cubans who are caught by the U.S. Coast Guard before placing their
feet
on U.S. soil are taken back to Cuba by the United States where they
can
and must be terribly angry and frustrated and despairing, a force
which
might serve to destabilize Cuban society. That's why they ARE taken
back
to Cuba by the United States, which welcomes those who managed to get
TO the United States. What must the Coasties think of all this?

Meanwhile, would-be migrants from all other countries are immediately
imprisoned and deported. Repeal the Cuban Adjustment Act now!
Normalize
relations with Cuba and permit Cubans who want to come to the U.S. to
do so on the same basis as all immigrants who want to can also do.


Walter Lippmann
Havana, Cuba
Un paraiso bajo el bloqueo
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaNews/

=======================================================================
LEARN ABOUT THE CUBAN ADJUSTMENT ACT:
http://www.walterlippmann.com/migration.html
=======================================================================

MIAMI HERALD
CUBA
Cubans drown in attempt to reach U.S.
A boat suspected of trying to smuggle Cubans into the United States
overturned last week and at least 25 people are presumed dead.
Posted on Thu, Dec. 27, 2007

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/americas/story/357895.html

BY WILFREDO CANCIO ISLA
El Nuevo Herald

At least 25 Cubans are presumed dead after a failed attempt to get to
the
United States by boat from the coastal town of Santa Cruz del Norte,
in
Havana province.

According to relatives of some of the victims, Cuban authorities
recovered
eight bodies and were still searching for 17 others still missing
Wednesday
night and presumed dead after their boat overturned last week. Other
unconfirmed reports said authorities had recovered 11 bodies.

One of the deceased was identified by a family member as Yosvanny Vera
Alvarez, 29, from Aguada de Pasajeros in Cienfuegos in central Cuba.
The
victim leaves behind a 9-year-old son.

According to Lázaro Vera Alvarez, who lives in Tampa, his brother's
body was
handed over to his mother on Saturday in Aguada de Pasajeros, where he
was
buried.

''State security turned up at my mother's house to deliver the body,''
Vera
Alvarez said in a telephone interview. ``He's already been buried.''

As of Wednesday evening, Cuban authorities had yet to report the
fatalities.

Interviews with Cubans familiar with the drownings offered different
versions of events.

Most of those interviewed by El Nuevo Herald indicated that the group
left
aboard a go-fast boat sometime between Thursday and Friday night with
28
passengers, including children. The motor boat had arrived in Cuba
from
Miami, those interviewed said.

The boat capsized shortly after its departure. The boat was being
chased by
the Cuban coast guard, those familiar with the incident said, and it
ended
up crashing into a reef.

A heated discussion among the passengers ensued, destabilizing the
boat and
causing passengers to be flung overboard.

''They told my mother that my brother was rescued after the accident
but
that he died of cardiac arrest when he was taken to the coast guard
boat,''
Lázaro Vera said.

``Everything's very strange, but there's evidence that the boat was
hit by
the Cuban coast guard.''

Vera Alvarez's mother, reached over the phone in Cuba by El Nuevo,
declined
to comment. ''I don't know anything. I am crushed,'' she said.

Vera Alvarez said his brother was a dissident and headed the
Independent
Union of Cuban Workers, a group considered illegal by the Cuban
government.

Other Cubans interviewed over the phone said that there are three
survivors,
among them a woman from Calimete in Matanzas province, east of Havana;
an
unidentified alleged smuggler, and a doctor named Sandy Carmona, from
Aguada
de Pasajeros. Carmona was taken to the state security at Villa Marista
in
Havana.

The deaths would be the second tragedy in less than a month involving
Cubans
at sea.

On Nov. 24, 20 Cubans -- including 12 children -- from the town of
Perico in
Matanzas, vanished after they left on a boat off the north coast. The
U.S.
Coast Guard declared the group lost at sea after a failed search in
the
Florida Straits.
M***@hotmail.com
2007-12-29 03:59:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Barry Schier
M[iami] H[erald]: Cubans drown in attempt to reach U.S.
CubaNews Message #38908 of 38909
These Cubans should be understood to be what they are: victims of U.S.
policy toward Cuba, specifically the Cuban Adjustment Act, which gives
special rights, special privileges and special advantages to Cubans
whose feet touch U.S. soil. This provides a massive financial
incentive
to smugglers who charge upwards of $10,000 per person to bring these
desperate people to the United States. But they don't always manage to
get to the United States and so who knows how many are killed through
tragedies like this?
Cubans who are caught by the U.S. Coast Guard before placing their
feet
on U.S. soil are taken back to Cuba by the United States where they
can
and must be terribly angry and frustrated and despairing, a force
which
might serve to destabilize Cuban society. That's why they ARE taken
back
to Cuba by the United States, which welcomes those who managed to get
TO the United States. What must the Coasties think of all this?
Meanwhile, would-be migrants from all other countries are immediately
imprisoned and deported. Repeal the Cuban Adjustment Act now!
Normalize
relations with Cuba and permit Cubans who want to come to the U.S. to
do so on the same basis as all immigrants who want to can also do.
Walter Lippmann
Havana, Cuba
Un paraiso bajo el bloqueohttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaNews/
=======================================================================
LEARN ABOUT THE CUBAN ADJUSTMENT ACT:http://www.walterlippmann.com/migration.html
=======================================================================
MIAMI HERALD
CUBA
Cubans drown in attempt to reach U.S.
A boat suspected of trying to smuggle Cubans into the United States
overturned last week and at least 25 people are presumed dead.
Posted on Thu, Dec. 27, 2007
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/americas/story/357895.html
BY WILFREDO CANCIO ISLA
El Nuevo Herald
At least 25 Cubans are presumed dead after a failed attempt to get to
the
United States by boat from the coastal town of Santa Cruz del Norte,
in
Havana province.
According to relatives of some of the victims, Cuban authorities
recovered
eight bodies and were still searching for 17 others still missing
Wednesday
night and presumed dead after their boat overturned last week. Other
unconfirmed reports said authorities had recovered 11 bodies.
One of the deceased was identified by a family member as Yosvanny Vera
Alvarez, 29, from Aguada de Pasajeros in Cienfuegos in central Cuba.
The
victim leaves behind a 9-year-old son.
According to Lázaro Vera Alvarez, who lives in Tampa, his brother's
body was
handed over to his mother on Saturday in Aguada de Pasajeros, where he
was
buried.
''State security turned up at my mother's house to deliver the body,''
Vera
Alvarez said in a telephone interview. ``He's already been buried.''
As of Wednesday evening, Cuban authorities had yet to report the
fatalities.
Interviews with Cubans familiar with the drownings offered different
versions of events.
Most of those interviewed by El Nuevo Herald indicated that the group
left
aboard a go-fast boat sometime between Thursday and Friday night with
28
passengers, including children. The motor boat had arrived in Cuba
from
Miami, those interviewed said.
The boat capsized shortly after its departure. The boat was being
chased by
the Cuban coast guard, those familiar with the incident said, and it
ended
up crashing into a reef.
A heated discussion among the passengers ensued, destabilizing the
boat and
causing passengers to be flung overboard.
''They told my mother that my brother was rescued after the accident
but
that he died of cardiac arrest when he was taken to the coast guard
boat,''
Lázaro Vera said.
``Everything's very strange, but there's evidence that the boat was
hit by
the Cuban coast guard.''
Vera Alvarez's mother, reached over the phone in Cuba by El Nuevo,
declined
to comment. ''I don't know anything. I am crushed,'' she said.
Vera Alvarez said his brother was a dissident and headed the
Independent
Union of Cuban Workers, a group considered illegal by the Cuban
government.
Other Cubans interviewed over the phone said that there are three
survivors,
among them a woman from Calimete in Matanzas province, east of Havana;
an
unidentified alleged smuggler, and a doctor named Sandy Carmona, from
Aguada
de Pasajeros. Carmona was taken to the state security at Villa Marista
in
Havana.
The deaths would be the second tragedy in less than a month involving
Cubans
at sea.
On Nov. 24, 20 Cubans -- including 12 children -- from the town of
Perico in
Matanzas, vanished after they left on a boat off the north coast. The
U.S.
Coast Guard declared the group lost at sea after a failed search in
the
Florida Straits.
Did you send the message? You are sick Barry. These Cubans died trying
to escape from Castro's tyranny, but according to you it is the fault
of the US. According to you, it is not the fault of a totalitarian
system that has caused the exile of 2 million, the imprisonment of
hundreds of thousands and the murder of at least 100,000 Cubans.

The Cuban people don't blame the US. We blame Castro. If there is any
bitterness in our hearts toward this great nation is due to two
things: 1) The betrayal at the Bay of Pigs and 2) The Kennedy-
Khrushchev deal that condemned Cuba to Communism.

We love democracy. You love Communism. You love a dictator. We love
the system that gives us the opportunity to express our opinions
freely and it also gives a person like you, who out of personal
frustrations hates this nation, the opportunity to express your love
for a tyrannical system located 90 miles away from the cradle of
modern democracy.
curious/Observador
2007-12-29 05:44:59 UTC
Permalink
It must be like living in an unimaginable hell, for people to risk
life and limb, together with that of their families, in attempting to
escape the totalitarian marxist/socialist hell hole, of the terrorist
dictator fidel castro.
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by Barry Schier
M[iami] H[erald]: Cubans drown in attempt to reach U.S.
CubaNews Message #38908 of 38909
These Cubans should be understood to be what they are: victims of U.S.
policy toward Cuba, specifically the Cuban Adjustment Act, which gives
special rights, special privileges and special advantages to Cubans
whose feet touch U.S. soil. This provides a massive financial
incentive
to smugglers who charge upwards of $10,000 per person to bring these
desperate people to the United States. But they don't always manage to
get to the United States and so who knows how many are killed through
tragedies like this?
Cubans who are caught by the U.S. Coast Guard before placing their
feet
on U.S. soil are taken back to Cuba by the United States where they
can
and must be terribly angry and frustrated and despairing, a force
which
might serve to destabilize Cuban society. That's why they ARE taken
back
to Cuba by the United States, which welcomes those who managed to get
TO the United States. What must the Coasties think of all this?
Meanwhile, would-be migrants from all other countries are immediately
imprisoned and deported. Repeal the Cuban Adjustment Act now!
Normalize
relations with Cuba and permit Cubans who want to come to the U.S. to
do so on the same basis as all immigrants who want to can also do.
Walter Lippmann
Havana, Cuba
Un paraiso bajo el bloqueohttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaNews/
=======================================================================
LEARN ABOUT THE CUBAN ADJUSTMENT ACT:http://www.walterlippmann.com/migration.html
=======================================================================
MIAMI HERALD
CUBA
Cubans drown in attempt to reach U.S.
A boat suspected of trying to smuggle Cubans into the United States
overturned last week and at least 25 people are presumed dead.
Posted on Thu, Dec. 27, 2007
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/americas/story/357895.html
BY WILFREDO CANCIO ISLA
El Nuevo Herald
At least 25 Cubans are presumed dead after a failed attempt to get to
the
United States by boat from the coastal town of Santa Cruz del Norte,
in
Havana province.
According to relatives of some of the victims, Cuban authorities
recovered
eight bodies and were still searching for 17 others still missing
Wednesday
night and presumed dead after their boat overturned last week. Other
unconfirmed reports said authorities had recovered 11 bodies.
One of the deceased was identified by a family member as Yosvanny Vera
Alvarez, 29, from Aguada de Pasajeros in Cienfuegos in central Cuba.
The
victim leaves behind a 9-year-old son.
According to Lázaro Vera Alvarez, who lives in Tampa, his brother's
body was
handed over to his mother on Saturday in Aguada de Pasajeros, where he
was
buried.
''State security turned up at my mother's house to deliver the body,''
Vera
Alvarez said in a telephone interview. ``He's already been buried.''
As of Wednesday evening, Cuban authorities had yet to report the
fatalities.
Interviews with Cubans familiar with the drownings offered different
versions of events.
Most of those interviewed by El Nuevo Herald indicated that the group
left
aboard a go-fast boat sometime between Thursday and Friday night with
28
passengers, including children. The motor boat had arrived in Cuba
from
Miami, those interviewed said.
The boat capsized shortly after its departure. The boat was being
chased by
the Cuban coast guard, those familiar with the incident said, and it
ended
up crashing into a reef.
A heated discussion among the passengers ensued, destabilizing the
boat and
causing passengers to be flung overboard.
''They told my mother that my brother was rescued after the accident
but
that he died of cardiac arrest when he was taken to the coast guard
boat,''
Lázaro Vera said.
``Everything's very strange, but there's evidence that the boat was
hit by
the Cuban coast guard.''
Vera Alvarez's mother, reached over the phone in Cuba by El Nuevo,
declined
to comment. ''I don't know anything. I am crushed,'' she said.
Vera Alvarez said his brother was a dissident and headed the
Independent
Union of Cuban Workers, a group considered illegal by the Cuban
government.
Other Cubans interviewed over the phone said that there are three
survivors,
among them a woman from Calimete in Matanzas province, east of Havana;
an
unidentified alleged smuggler, and a doctor named Sandy Carmona, from
Aguada
de Pasajeros. Carmona was taken to the state security at Villa Marista
in
Havana.
The deaths would be the second tragedy in less than a month involving
Cubans
at sea.
On Nov. 24, 20 Cubans -- including 12 children -- from the town of
Perico in
Matanzas, vanished after they left on a boat off the north coast. The
U.S.
Coast Guard declared the group lost at sea after a failed search in
the
Florida Straits.
Did you send the message? You are sick Barry. These Cubans died trying
to escape from Castro's tyranny, but according to you it is the fault
of the US. According to you, it is not the fault of a totalitarian
system that has caused the exile of 2 million, the imprisonment of
hundreds of thousands and the murder of at least 100,000 Cubans.
The Cuban people don't blame the US. We blame Castro. If there is any
bitterness in our hearts toward this great nation is due to two
things: 1) The betrayal at the Bay of Pigs and 2) The Kennedy-
Khrushchev deal that condemned Cuba to Communism.
We love democracy. You love Communism. You love a dictator. We love
the system that gives us the opportunity to express our opinions
freely and it also gives a person like you, who out of personal
frustrations hates this nation, the opportunity to express your love
for a tyrannical system located 90 miles away from the cradle of
modern democracy.
krp
2007-12-29 14:59:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by curious/Observador
It must be like living in an unimaginable hell, for people to risk
life and limb, together with that of their families, in attempting to
escape the totalitarian marxist/socialist hell hole, of the terrorist
dictator fidel castro.
No it isn't unimaginable hell to Cubans. They live it. But it is more
like the Chinese water torture for the people of Cuba. It is like being tied
down to a platform and having water drip on your forehead. Eventually when
you can get up you run away. It's just one small piece of mierda piled on
another until they can't take it any more and the risk of death (2 of 3 who
try to leave die) is worth it to them.
krp
2007-12-29 14:56:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Barry Schier
M[iami] H[erald]: Cubans drown in attempt to reach U.S.
CubaNews Message #38908 of 38909
These Cubans should be understood to be what they are: victims of U.S.
policy toward Cuba, specifically the Cuban Adjustment Act, which gives
special rights, special privileges and special advantages to Cubans
whose feet touch U.S. soil.
Did you send the message? You are sick Barry. These Cubans died trying
to escape from Castro's tyranny, but according to you it is the fault
of the US. According to you, it is not the fault of a totalitarian
system that has caused the exile of 2 million, the imprisonment of
hundreds of thousands and the murder of at least 100,000 Cubans.
Mike - Comrade Schier suffers one of the worst cases of cranial-rectal
inversion know in medical history.
M***@hotmail.com
2007-12-30 21:00:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by krp
Post by Barry Schier
M[iami] H[erald]: Cubans drown in attempt to reach U.S.
CubaNews Message #38908 of 38909
These Cubans should be understood to be what they are: victims of U.S.
policy toward Cuba, specifically the Cuban Adjustment Act, which gives
special rights, special privileges and special advantages to Cubans
whose feet touch U.S. soil.
Did you send the message? You are sick Barry. These Cubans died trying
to escape from Castro's tyranny, but according to you it is the fault
of the US. According to you, it is not the fault of a totalitarian
system that has caused the exile of 2 million, the imprisonment of
hundreds of thousands and the murder of at least 100,000 Cubans.
Mike - Comrade Schier suffers one of the worst cases of cranial-rectal
inversion know in medical history.
And that is probably the least of his problems.
krp
2007-12-31 05:44:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by krp
Post by Barry Schier
M[iami] H[erald]: Cubans drown in attempt to reach U.S.
CubaNews Message #38908 of 38909
These Cubans should be understood to be what they are: victims of U.S.
policy toward Cuba, specifically the Cuban Adjustment Act, which gives
special rights, special privileges and special advantages to Cubans
whose feet touch U.S. soil.
Did you send the message? You are sick Barry. These Cubans died trying
to escape from Castro's tyranny, but according to you it is the fault
of the US. According to you, it is not the fault of a totalitarian
system that has caused the exile of 2 million, the imprisonment of
hundreds of thousands and the murder of at least 100,000 Cubans.
Mike - Comrade Schier suffers one of the worst cases of
cranial-rectal
inversion know in medical history.
And that is probably the least of his problems.
These tired old Marxists are amusing. What do they have left? Cuba and
North Korea and Venezuela heading that way for now. I can't believe that
Venezuela will make the same mistakes as Cuba did. The people are already
rising up.
krp
2007-12-29 14:54:48 UTC
Permalink
MR. BIZARRO
Post by Barry Schier
M[iami] H[erald]: Cubans drown in attempt to reach U.S.
CubaNews Message #38908 of 38909
These Cubans should be understood to be what they are: victims of U.S.
policy toward Cuba, specifically the Cuban Adjustment Act, which gives
special rights, special privileges and special advantages to Cubans
whose feet touch U.S. soil. This provides a massive financial incentive
Victims of the U.S.? Or victims of a failed repressive government in
Cuba? Your logic is, as usual, twisted Comrade Schier. It is the logic of
blaming the store owner for having money in his cash register that MADE the
criminal rob him. Not that the Cuban people are criminals, they are just
people looking for FREEDOM and a decent life, escaping a system that only a
MORON could love.
PL
2007-12-29 15:10:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Barry Schier
M[iami] H[erald]: Cubans drown in attempt to reach U.S.
CubaNews Message #38908 of 38909
These Cubans should be understood to be what they are: victims of U.S.
policy toward Cuba,
actually: they are victims of the repression in Cuba.
Cuba violates the human rights of it's people and even denies them the
most basic freedom of movement: the right to enter and leave the country
as they choose.
Without that restriction there would be no people dying at sea.
Even people with a avalid entry visa to the US or Europe are often
denied an exit permit (PVE - Permiso de viaje al extranjero).
For more details see:
http://www.cubaverdad.net/freedom_of_movement.htm

PL


(snip)
Post by Barry Schier
MIAMI HERALD
CUBA
Cubans drown in attempt to reach U.S.
A boat suspected of trying to smuggle Cubans into the United States
overturned last week and at least 25 people are presumed dead.
Posted on Thu, Dec. 27, 2007
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/americas/story/357895.html
BY WILFREDO CANCIO ISLA
El Nuevo Herald
At least 25 Cubans are presumed dead after a failed attempt to get to
the
United States by boat from the coastal town of Santa Cruz del Norte,
in
Havana province.
According to relatives of some of the victims, Cuban authorities
recovered
eight bodies and were still searching for 17 others still missing
Wednesday
night and presumed dead after their boat overturned last week. Other
unconfirmed reports said authorities had recovered 11 bodies.
One of the deceased was identified by a family member as Yosvanny Vera
Alvarez, 29, from Aguada de Pasajeros in Cienfuegos in central Cuba.
The
victim leaves behind a 9-year-old son.
According to Lázaro Vera Alvarez, who lives in Tampa, his brother's
body was
handed over to his mother on Saturday in Aguada de Pasajeros, where he
was
buried.
''State security turned up at my mother's house to deliver the body,''
Vera
Alvarez said in a telephone interview. ``He's already been buried.''
As of Wednesday evening, Cuban authorities had yet to report the
fatalities.
Interviews with Cubans familiar with the drownings offered different
versions of events.
Most of those interviewed by El Nuevo Herald indicated that the group
left
aboard a go-fast boat sometime between Thursday and Friday night with
28
passengers, including children. The motor boat had arrived in Cuba
from
Miami, those interviewed said.
The boat capsized shortly after its departure. The boat was being
chased by
the Cuban coast guard, those familiar with the incident said, and it
ended
up crashing into a reef.
A heated discussion among the passengers ensued, destabilizing the
boat and
causing passengers to be flung overboard.
''They told my mother that my brother was rescued after the accident
but
that he died of cardiac arrest when he was taken to the coast guard
boat,''
Lázaro Vera said.
``Everything's very strange, but there's evidence that the boat was
hit by
the Cuban coast guard.''
Vera Alvarez's mother, reached over the phone in Cuba by El Nuevo,
declined
to comment. ''I don't know anything. I am crushed,'' she said.
Vera Alvarez said his brother was a dissident and headed the
Independent
Union of Cuban Workers, a group considered illegal by the Cuban
government.
Other Cubans interviewed over the phone said that there are three
survivors,
among them a woman from Calimete in Matanzas province, east of Havana;
an
unidentified alleged smuggler, and a doctor named Sandy Carmona, from
Aguada
de Pasajeros. Carmona was taken to the state security at Villa Marista
in
Havana.
The deaths would be the second tragedy in less than a month involving
Cubans
at sea.
On Nov. 24, 20 Cubans -- including 12 children -- from the town of
Perico in
Matanzas, vanished after they left on a boat off the north coast. The
U.S.
Coast Guard declared the group lost at sea after a failed search in
the
Florida Straits.
redflag
2007-12-30 21:58:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by PL
Post by Barry Schier
M[iami] H[erald]: Cubans drown in attempt to reach U.S.
CubaNews Message #38908 of 38909
These Cubans should be understood to be what they are: victims of U.S.
policy toward Cuba,
actually: they are victims of the repression in Cuba.
Cuba violates the human rights of it's people and even denies them the
most basic freedom of movement: the right to enter and leave the country
as they choose.
That is a barefaced lie. It is the office of the U.S. Cuban section
in Havana that limits the ammount of visas precisely to create the
problem of illegal exits.

I myself, on several occasions, have helped Cuban emigres to
translate and write letters to the INS and other U.S. government
agencies in order to facilitate or secure U.S. visas for their
relatives. It is a tortuos process full of bureaucratic obstacles
and dead ends that takes years.
M***@hotmail.com
2007-12-30 22:03:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by redflag
Post by PL
Post by Barry Schier
M[iami] H[erald]: Cubans drown in attempt to reach U.S.
CubaNews Message #38908 of 38909
These Cubans should be understood to be what they are: victims of U.S.
policy toward Cuba,
actually: they are victims of the repression in Cuba.
Cuba violates the human rights of it's people and even denies them the
most basic freedom of movement: the right to enter and leave the country
as they choose.
That is a barefaced lie. It is the office of the U.S. Cuban section
in Havana that limits the ammount of visas precisely to create the
problem of illegal exits.
I myself, on several occasions, have helped Cuban emigres to
translate and write letters to the INS and other U.S. government
agencies in order to facilitate or secure U.S. visas for their
relatives. It is a tortuos process full of bureaucratic obstacles
and dead ends that takes years.
You liar. Helping Cuban exiles? That will be the day.

The only thing you do Trapo Colorao es besarle el culo a un tirano
redflag
2007-12-30 22:23:36 UTC
Permalink
***@hotmail.com wrote:
[...]
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by redflag
I myself, on several occasions, have helped Cuban emigres to
translate and write letters to the INS and other U.S. government
agencies in order to facilitate or secure U.S. visas for their
relatives. It is a tortuos process full of bureaucratic obstacles
and dead ends that takes years.
You liar. Helping Cuban exiles? That will be the day.
The only thing you do Trapo Colorao es besarle el culo a un tirano
Believe what you want, ***@ho, it makes no difference to me.

I speak whereof I know, and I know, from first hand experience,
that it is easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a
needle than for a Cuban to get a U.S. visa to travel here.

And that, my friend, is a fact.
M***@hotmail.com
2007-12-30 22:30:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by redflag
[...]
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by redflag
I myself, on several occasions, have helped Cuban emigres to
translate and write letters to the INS and other U.S. government
agencies in order to facilitate or secure U.S. visas for their
relatives. It is a tortuos process full of bureaucratic obstacles
and dead ends that takes years.
You liar. Helping Cuban exiles? That will be the day.
The only thing you do Trapo Colorao es besarle el culo a un tirano
I speak whereof I know, and I know, from first hand experience,
that it is easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a
needle than for a Cuban to get a U.S. visa to travel here.
And that, my friend, is a fact.
Trapo Colorao,

I am sure that is true if you are a Castro agent. There are 2 million
Cubans all over the world. Approximately 1.5 million live in the
US .Most have come through regular means. It must be a HUGE eye of a
needle. Of course, not as wide as Raul's rectum.
redflag
2007-12-31 00:22:52 UTC
Permalink
***@hotmail.com wrote:
[...]
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Trapo Colorao,
I am sure that is true if you are a Castro agent. There are 2 million
Cubans all over the world. Approximately 1.5 million live in the
US .Most have come through regular means. It must be a HUGE eye of a
needle.
In which case your argument and PL's statement fall flat on their
faces.

Cuba _does_ allow its people to travel throughout the world,
it allows them to emigrate and pass through that "HUGE" eye of
the needle; It's the U.S. that wants to make it as tight as
possible only to make things difficult for Cuba and its people.
M***@hotmail.com
2007-12-31 00:27:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by redflag
[...]
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Trapo Colorao,
I am sure that is true if you are a Castro agent. There are 2 million
Cubans all over the world. Approximately 1.5 million live in the
US .Most have come through regular means. It must be a HUGE eye of a
needle.
In which case your argument and PL's statement fall flat on their
faces.
Cuba _does_ allow its people to travel throughout the world,
it allows them to emigrate and pass through that "HUGE" eye of
the needle; It's the U.S. that wants to make it as tight as
possible only to make things difficult for Cuba and its people.
My God, you are an idiot.
redflag
2007-12-31 00:38:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by redflag
[...]
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Trapo Colorao,
I am sure that is true if you are a Castro agent. There are 2 million
Cubans all over the world. Approximately 1.5 million live in the
US .Most have come through regular means. It must be a HUGE eye of a
needle.
In which case your argument and PL's statement fall flat on their
faces.
Cuba _does_ allow its people to travel throughout the world,
it allows them to emigrate and pass through that "HUGE" eye of
the needle; It's the U.S. that wants to make it as tight as
possible only to make things difficult for Cuba and its people.
My God, you are an idiot.
No more than you, my friend, no more than you...
Hermogenes Giron
2007-12-31 01:01:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by redflag
[...]
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Trapo Colorao,
I am sure that is true if you are a Castro agent. There are 2 million
Cubans all over the world. Approximately 1.5 million live in the
US .Most have come through regular means. It must be a HUGE eye of a
needle.
In which case your argument and PL's statement fall flat on their
faces.
Cuba _does_ allow its people to travel throughout the world,
it allows them to emigrate and pass through that "HUGE" eye of
the needle; It's the U.S. that wants to make it as tight as
possible only to make things difficult for Cuba and its people.
My God, you are an idiot.
My God, you have been brainwashed . . .and you don't even get money
from the CIA like Noriega and the other CIA atooges, you, knuckle brain,
do this for free!!!!
M***@hotmail.com
2007-12-31 04:32:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hermogenes Giron
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by redflag
[...]
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Trapo Colorao,
I am sure that is true if you are a Castro agent. There are 2 million
Cubans all over the world. Approximately 1.5 million live in the
US .Most have come through regular means. It must be a HUGE eye of a
needle.
In which case your argument and PL's statement fall flat on their
faces.
Cuba _does_ allow its people to travel throughout the world,
it allows them to emigrate and pass through that "HUGE" eye of
the needle; It's the U.S. that wants to make it as tight as
possible only to make things difficult for Cuba and its people.
My God, you are an idiot.
My God, you have been brainwashed . . .and you don't even get money
from the CIA like Noriega and the other CIA atooges, you, knuckle brain,
do this for free!!!!
No. I haven't been brainwashed. I was born there. I have lived under
the totalitarian system that Castro developed that is half Communist
and one and a half Fascist. Cubans' right to travel are severely
limited, sometimes even within Cuba. I know what I am talking about.
What are your credentials?
Hermogenes Giron
2007-12-31 18:38:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by Hermogenes Giron
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by redflag
[...]
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Trapo Colorao,
I am sure that is true if you are a Castro agent. There are 2 million
Cubans all over the world. Approximately 1.5 million live in the
US .Most have come through regular means. It must be a HUGE eye of a
needle.
In which case your argument and PL's statement fall flat on their
faces.
Cuba _does_ allow its people to travel throughout the world,
it allows them to emigrate and pass through that "HUGE" eye of
the needle; It's the U.S. that wants to make it as tight as
possible only to make things difficult for Cuba and its people.
My God, you are an idiot.
My God, you have been brainwashed . . .and you don't even get money
from the CIA like Noriega and the other CIA atooges, you, knuckle brain,
do this for free!!!!
No. I haven't been brainwashed. I was born there. I have lived under
the totalitarian system that Castro developed that is half Communist
and one and a half Fascist. Cubans' right to travel are severely
limited, sometimes even within Cuba. I know what I am talking about.
What are your credentials?
The waiting list to get US Visa is what limits travel, Cuba, as a small
country has the right to protect itself from terrorists like the gusanos
of Miami.
M***@hotmail.com
2008-01-01 18:28:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hermogenes Giron
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by Hermogenes Giron
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by redflag
[...]
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Trapo Colorao,
I am sure that is true if you are a Castro agent. There are 2 million
Cubans all over the world. Approximately 1.5 million live in the
US .Most have come through regular means. It must be a HUGE eye of a
needle.
In which case your argument and PL's statement fall flat on their
faces.
Cuba _does_ allow its people to travel throughout the world,
it allows them to emigrate and pass through that "HUGE" eye of
the needle; It's the U.S. that wants to make it as tight as
possible only to make things difficult for Cuba and its people.
My God, you are an idiot.
My God, you have been brainwashed . . .and you don't even get money
from the CIA like Noriega and the other CIA atooges, you, knuckle brain,
do this for free!!!!
No. I haven't been brainwashed. I was born there. I have lived under
the totalitarian system that Castro developed that is half Communist
and one and a half Fascist. Cubans' right to travel are severely
limited, sometimes even within Cuba. I know what I am talking about.
What are your credentials?
The waiting list to get US Visa is what limits travel, Cuba, as a small
country has the right to protect itself from terrorists like the gusanos
of Miami.
Castrolandia is a totalitarian country. The tyrant does not have the
right to keep a system based on terror.

I see you choose to call the Cubans who oppose Castro "gusanos" or
worms in English. I see you like to repeat like a parrot Castro's
propaganda by calling us "terrorists".

Well, the fact is that most Cubans inside and outside Cuba desire
democracy. We are tired of the lies of the totalitarian state with its
senile tyrant as the head. Why don't you ask the Castro regime to hold
free and democratic elections supervised by the UN? Why don't you ask
the regime to allow other political parties besides the Communist
party? Why don't you ask the regime to allow a free press?

I guess that you don't want to be labeled a "worm" or a terrorist by
your Master from Havana.
Matt Hungo
2007-12-31 01:39:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by redflag
Cuba _does_ allow its people to travel throughout the world,
it allows them to emigrate and pass through that "HUGE" eye of
the needle; It's the U.S. that wants to make it as tight as
possible only to make things difficult for Cuba and its people.
Not only the US. The "Miami Worms" do not want to allow the Cubans
fron the Island to enter legally in USA.
Look at this article by Alejandro Armengol:
http://tinyurl.com/yvxzet
Matt
krp
2007-12-31 05:51:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matt Hungo
Post by redflag
Cuba _does_ allow its people to travel throughout the world,
it allows them to emigrate and pass through that "HUGE" eye of
the needle; It's the U.S. that wants to make it as tight as
possible only to make things difficult for Cuba and its people.
Not only the US. The "Miami Worms" do not want to allow the Cubans
fron the Island to enter legally in USA.
That's bullshit Matt. My wife came legally.
krp
2007-12-31 05:50:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by redflag
[...]
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Trapo Colorao,
I am sure that is true if you are a Castro agent. There are 2 million
Cubans all over the world. Approximately 1.5 million live in the
US .Most have come through regular means. It must be a HUGE eye of a
needle.
In which case your argument and PL's statement fall flat on their
faces.
Cuba _does_ allow its people to travel throughout the world,
it allows them to emigrate and pass through that "HUGE" eye of
the needle; It's the U.S. that wants to make it as tight as
possible only to make things difficult for Cuba and its people.
Bullshit. The U.S. issues over 20,000 visas a year to Cubans knowing that
almost all 20,000 will stay and become permanent residents and citizens.
Cubans cannot travel freely. While we have a visa for my wife's 70 year old
father to come for a visit, Cuba won't let him go.
M***@hotmail.com
2007-12-31 17:59:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by krp
Post by redflag
[...]
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Trapo Colorao,
I am sure that is true if you are a Castro agent. There are 2 million
Cubans all over the world. Approximately 1.5 million live in the
US .Most have come through regular means. It must be a HUGE eye of a
needle.
In which case your argument and PL's statement fall flat on their
faces.
Cuba _does_ allow its people to travel throughout the world,
it allows them to emigrate and pass through that "HUGE" eye of
the needle; It's the U.S. that wants to make it as tight as
possible only to make things difficult for Cuba and its people.
Bullshit. The U.S. issues over 20,000 visas a year to Cubans knowing that
almost all 20,000 will stay and become permanent residents and citizens.
Cubans cannot travel freely. While we have a visa for my wife's 70 year old
father to come for a visit, Cuba won't let him go.
It is true that this year that have been delays caused primarily by
the Castro government. For the first time, the 20,000 visas were not
issued. There is no doubt in my mind that the Castro regime is
planning some confrontation. Perhaps, they are planning another Mariel
boatlift. On the other hand, I doubt they will carry it out.
Regardless of what you think of President Bush, I believe you will
agree that he is no Jimmy Carter. I don't believe the Castro regime
will take the risks with Bush in the White House. If Hilary or Obama
win the presidency it could be a different story.
krp
2008-01-01 13:53:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by krp
Post by redflag
Post by M***@hotmail.com
I am sure that is true if you are a Castro agent. There are 2 million
Cubans all over the world. Approximately 1.5 million live in the
US .Most have come through regular means. It must be a HUGE eye of a
needle.
In which case your argument and PL's statement fall flat on their
faces.
Cuba _does_ allow its people to travel throughout the world,
it allows them to emigrate and pass through that "HUGE" eye of
the needle; It's the U.S. that wants to make it as tight as
possible only to make things difficult for Cuba and its people.
Bullshit. The U.S. issues over 20,000 visas a year to Cubans knowing that
almost all 20,000 will stay and become permanent residents and citizens.
Cubans cannot travel freely. While we have a visa for my wife's 70 year old
father to come for a visit, Cuba won't let him go.
It is true that this year that have been delays caused primarily by
the Castro government. For the first time, the 20,000 visas were not
issued. There is no doubt in my mind that the Castro regime is
planning some confrontation. Perhaps, they are planning another Mariel
boatlift. On the other hand, I doubt they will carry it out.
Regardless of what you think of President Bush, I believe you will
agree that he is no Jimmy Carter. I don't believe the Castro regime
will take the risks with Bush in the White House. If Hilary or Obama
win the presidency it could be a different story.
The problem? It seems that the Havana government has blocked allowing in
replacement personnel at the USIS in Havana and has not allowed the hiring
of Cuban workers to aid in the processing. So the Interests Section is very
backlogged.
PL
2008-01-01 17:57:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by redflag
[...]
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Trapo Colorao,
I am sure that is true if you are a Castro agent. There are 2 million
Cubans all over the world. Approximately 1.5 million live in the
US .Most have come through regular means. It must be a HUGE eye of a
needle.
In which case your argument and PL's statement fall flat on their
faces.
Nope.
it just shows that lots of people succeeded ti leave before Castro or flee.

PL
krp
2007-12-31 05:47:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by redflag
[...]
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by redflag
I myself, on several occasions, have helped Cuban emigres to
translate and write letters to the INS and other U.S. government
agencies in order to facilitate or secure U.S. visas for their
relatives. It is a tortuos process full of bureaucratic obstacles
and dead ends that takes years.
You liar. Helping Cuban exiles? That will be the day.
The only thing you do Trapo Colorao es besarle el culo a un tirano
I speak whereof I know, and I know, from first hand experience,
that it is easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a
needle than for a Cuban to get a U.S. visa to travel here.
And that, my friend, is a fact.
No the FACT is that there are so MANY who want to come. Over 500,000
applications every year. SO let's get off the bullshit here.
IF it were possible there would be MORE Cubans here than in Cuba.
Hermogenes Giron
2007-12-31 18:40:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by krp
Post by redflag
[...]
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by redflag
I myself, on several occasions, have helped Cuban emigres to
translate and write letters to the INS and other U.S. government
agencies in order to facilitate or secure U.S. visas for their
relatives. It is a tortuos process full of bureaucratic obstacles
and dead ends that takes years.
You liar. Helping Cuban exiles? That will be the day.
The only thing you do Trapo Colorao es besarle el culo a un tirano
I speak whereof I know, and I know, from first hand experience,
that it is easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a
needle than for a Cuban to get a U.S. visa to travel here.
And that, my friend, is a fact.
No the FACT is that there are so MANY who want to come. Over 500,000
applications every year. SO let's get off the bullshit here.
IF it were possible there would be MORE Cubans here than in Cuba.
The same could be said for any country in Latin America. That is not an
argument against Cuba. 4 millions Puerto Ricans live in the US MORE than
in the island, and thousands leave every year.
f***@fredwilliamsFFFf.ca
2007-12-31 20:50:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hermogenes Giron
Post by krp
Post by redflag
[...]
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by redflag
I myself, on several occasions, have helped Cuban emigres to
translate and write letters to the INS and other U.S. government
agencies in order to facilitate or secure U.S. visas for their
relatives. It is a tortuos process full of bureaucratic obstacles
and dead ends that takes years.
You liar. Helping Cuban exiles? That will be the day.
The only thing you do Trapo Colorao es besarle el culo a un tirano
I speak whereof I know, and I know, from first hand experience,
that it is easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a
needle than for a Cuban to get a U.S. visa to travel here.
And that, my friend, is a fact.
No the FACT is that there are so MANY who want to come. Over 500,000
applications every year. SO let's get off the bullshit here.
IF it were possible there would be MORE Cubans here than in Cuba.
The same could be said for any country in Latin America. That is not
an argument against Cuba. 4 millions Puerto Ricans live in the US MORE
than in the island, and thousands leave every year.
Exactly. There was a quota of 20,000 agreed to some years ago and Cuba
wanted it to be higher, but the U.S. was the one limiting the number of
immigrants. Then they don't even allow that many and only let around
10,000 through. Cuba restricts no one from leaving.

--
Regards, Fred
<http://www.fredwilliams.ca/thesecretofmoney.html>
krp
2008-01-01 14:07:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@fredwilliamsFFFf.ca
Post by Hermogenes Giron
Post by krp
Post by redflag
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by redflag
I myself, on several occasions, have helped Cuban emigres to
translate and write letters to the INS and other U.S. government
agencies in order to facilitate or secure U.S. visas for their
relatives. It is a tortuos process full of bureaucratic obstacles
and dead ends that takes years.
You liar. Helping Cuban exiles? That will be the day.
The only thing you do Trapo Colorao es besarle el culo a un tirano
I speak whereof I know, and I know, from first hand experience,
that it is easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a
needle than for a Cuban to get a U.S. visa to travel here.
And that, my friend, is a fact.
No the FACT is that there are so MANY who want to come. Over 500,000
applications every year. SO let's get off the bullshit here.
IF it were possible there would be MORE Cubans here than in Cuba.
The same could be said for any country in Latin America. That is not
an argument against Cuba. 4 millions Puerto Ricans live in the US MORE
than in the island, and thousands leave every year.
Exactly. There was a quota of 20,000 agreed to some years ago and Cuba
wanted it to be higher, but the U.S. was the one limiting the number of
immigrants. Then they don't even allow that many and only let around
10,000 through. Cuba restricts no one from leaving.
What Cuba WANTED was to keep flushing their prisons and mental clinics.
f***@fredwilliamsFFFf.ca
2008-01-01 16:02:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by krp
Post by f***@fredwilliamsFFFf.ca
Post by Hermogenes Giron
Post by krp
Post by redflag
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by redflag
I myself, on several occasions, have helped Cuban emigres to
translate and write letters to the INS and other U.S. government
agencies in order to facilitate or secure U.S. visas for their
relatives. It is a tortuos process full of bureaucratic obstacles
and dead ends that takes years.
You liar. Helping Cuban exiles? That will be the day.
The only thing you do Trapo Colorao es besarle el culo a un tirano
I speak whereof I know, and I know, from first hand experience,
that it is easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a
needle than for a Cuban to get a U.S. visa to travel here.
And that, my friend, is a fact.
No the FACT is that there are so MANY who want to come. Over
500,000 applications every year. SO let's get off the bullshit
here. IF it were possible there would be MORE Cubans here than in
Cuba.
The same could be said for any country in Latin America. That is not
an argument against Cuba. 4 millions Puerto Ricans live in the US
MORE than in the island, and thousands leave every year.
Exactly. There was a quota of 20,000 agreed to some years ago
and
Cuba
wanted it to be higher, but the U.S. was the one limiting the number of
immigrants. Then they don't even allow that many and only let around
10,000 through. Cuba restricts no one from leaving.
What Cuba WANTED was to keep flushing their prisons and mental
clinics.
I expect they wanted to allow people who were greedy and malcontent to
leave so they would not hamper the revolution for the rest of them.
After all if they are not going to help be part of the solution, then
let the U.S. have them. I don't think prisoners were shipped out.
I've never heard of any, unless they were foreign nationals being
repatriated or something like that.

--
Regards, Fred
<http://www.fredwilliams.ca/thesecretofmoney.html>
PL
2008-01-01 17:59:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@fredwilliamsFFFf.ca
Post by krp
Post by f***@fredwilliamsFFFf.ca
Post by Hermogenes Giron
Post by krp
Post by redflag
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by redflag
I myself, on several occasions, have helped Cuban emigres to
translate and write letters to the INS and other U.S. government
agencies in order to facilitate or secure U.S. visas for their
relatives. It is a tortuos process full of bureaucratic obstacles
and dead ends that takes years.
You liar. Helping Cuban exiles? That will be the day.
The only thing you do Trapo Colorao es besarle el culo a un tirano
I speak whereof I know, and I know, from first hand experience,
that it is easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a
needle than for a Cuban to get a U.S. visa to travel here.
And that, my friend, is a fact.
No the FACT is that there are so MANY who want to come. Over
500,000 applications every year. SO let's get off the bullshit
here. IF it were possible there would be MORE Cubans here than in
Cuba.
The same could be said for any country in Latin America. That is not
an argument against Cuba. 4 millions Puerto Ricans live in the US
MORE than in the island, and thousands leave every year.
Exactly. There was a quota of 20,000 agreed to some years ago
and
Cuba
wanted it to be higher, but the U.S. was the one limiting the number of
immigrants. Then they don't even allow that many and only let around
10,000 through. Cuba restricts no one from leaving.
What Cuba WANTED was to keep flushing their prisons and mental clinics.
I expect they wanted to allow people who were greedy and malcontent to
leave so they would not hamper the revolution for the rest of them.
If "malcontent people" are allowed to leave why do they first need to applu
for a permit to leave?
http://www.cubaverdad.net/freedom_of_movement.htm
Why can't Cubans freely leave and re-enter their own country?

PL
krp
2008-01-02 04:50:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@fredwilliamsFFFf.ca
Post by krp
Post by f***@fredwilliamsFFFf.ca
Post by Hermogenes Giron
Post by krp
Post by redflag
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by redflag
I myself, on several occasions, have helped Cuban emigres to
translate and write letters to the INS and other U.S. government
agencies in order to facilitate or secure U.S. visas for their
relatives. It is a tortuos process full of bureaucratic obstacles
and dead ends that takes years.
You liar. Helping Cuban exiles? That will be the day.
The only thing you do Trapo Colorao es besarle el culo a un tirano
I speak whereof I know, and I know, from first hand experience,
that it is easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a
needle than for a Cuban to get a U.S. visa to travel here.
And that, my friend, is a fact.
No the FACT is that there are so MANY who want to come. Over
500,000 applications every year. SO let's get off the bullshit
here. IF it were possible there would be MORE Cubans here than in
Cuba.
The same could be said for any country in Latin America. That is not
an argument against Cuba. 4 millions Puerto Ricans live in the US
MORE than in the island, and thousands leave every year.
Exactly. There was a quota of 20,000 agreed to some years ago and Cuba
wanted it to be higher, but the U.S. was the one limiting the numberof
immigrants. Then they don't even allow that many and only let around
10,000 through. Cuba restricts no one from leaving.
What Cuba WANTED was to keep flushing their prisons and mental clinics.
I expect they wanted to allow people who were greedy and malcontent to
leave so they would not hamper the revolution for the rest of them.
After all if they are not going to help be part of the solution, then
let the U.S. have them. I don't think prisoners were shipped out.
I've never heard of any, unless they were foreign nationals being
repatriated or something like that.
But Freddy you have NEVER been to Cuba and don't know any Cubans except
the people in the local embassy near you. IF they allowed everyone who
wanted to go, Freddy, Havana would be a VERY small city and the rest of Cuba
largely vacant. You have NO idea what you are talking about. If the doors
were open, even government officials would leave. That's why in Cuba you
need "permission" to leave even for a VISIT.
M***@hotmail.com
2008-01-03 07:18:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by krp
Post by Hermogenes Giron
Post by krp
Post by redflag
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by redflag
I myself, on several occasions, have helped Cuban emigres to
translate and write letters to the INS and other U.S. government
agencies in order to facilitate or secure U.S. visas for their
relatives. It is a tortuos process full of bureaucratic obstacles
and dead ends that takes years.
You liar. Helping Cuban exiles? That will be the day.
The only thing you do Trapo Colorao es besarle el culo a un tirano
I speak whereof I know, and I know, from first hand experience,
that it is easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a
needle than for a Cuban to get a U.S. visa to travel here.
And that, my friend, is a fact.
No the FACT is that there are so MANY who want to come. Over
500,000 applications every year. SO let's get off the bullshit
here. IF it were possible there would be MORE Cubans here than in
Cuba.
The same could be said for any country in Latin America. That is not
an argument against Cuba. 4 millions Puerto Ricans live in the US
MORE than in the island, and thousands leave every year.
       Exactly.  There was a quota of 20,000 agreed to some years ago
and Cuba
wanted it to be higher, but the U.S. was the one limiting the numberof
immigrants.  Then they don't even allow that many and only let around
10,000 through.  Cuba restricts no one from leaving.
What Cuba WANTED was to keep flushing their prisons and mental clinics.
       I expect they wanted to allow people who were greedy and malcontent
to
leave so they would not hamper the revolution for the rest of them.
After all if they are not going to help be part of the solution, then
let the U.S. have them.  I don't think prisoners were shipped out.
I've never heard of any, unless they were foreign nationals being
repatriated or something like that.
    But Freddy you have NEVER been to Cuba and don't know any Cubans except
the people in the local embassy near you. IF they allowed everyone who
wanted to go, Freddy, Havana would be a VERY small city and the rest of Cuba
largely vacant.  You have NO idea what you are talking about. If the doors
were open, even government officials would leave. That's why in Cuba you
need "permission" to leave even for a VISIT.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
It is incredible how many government officials are leaving Cuba, as
well as others who are living fairly well, in relation to the average
Cuban. During the month of December of 2007 the Johnny Carson of Cuba,
Carlos Otero, defected. In addition, the group Tres de la Habana, two
star performers from the Cuban Ballet, and ten performers from the
Cuban circus, also defected.

Castrolandia is a sinking ship!
krp
2008-01-03 12:43:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by f***@fredwilliamsFFFf.ca
Post by krp
Post by Hermogenes Giron
Post by krp
Post by redflag
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by redflag
I myself, on several occasions, have helped Cuban emigres to
translate and write letters to the INS and other U.S. government
agencies in order to facilitate or secure U.S. visas for their
relatives. It is a tortuos process full of bureaucratic obstacles
and dead ends that takes years.
You liar. Helping Cuban exiles? That will be the day.
The only thing you do Trapo Colorao es besarle el culo a un tirano
I speak whereof I know, and I know, from first hand experience,
that it is easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a
needle than for a Cuban to get a U.S. visa to travel here.
And that, my friend, is a fact.
No the FACT is that there are so MANY who want to come. Over
500,000 applications every year. SO let's get off the bullshit
here. IF it were possible there would be MORE Cubans here than in
Cuba.
The same could be said for any country in Latin America. That is not
an argument against Cuba. 4 millions Puerto Ricans live in the US
MORE than in the island, and thousands leave every year.
Exactly. There was a quota of 20,000 agreed to some years ago
and Cuba
wanted it to be higher, but the U.S. was the one limiting the numberof
immigrants. Then they don't even allow that many and only let around
10,000 through. Cuba restricts no one from leaving.
What Cuba WANTED was to keep flushing their prisons and mental clinics.
I expect they wanted to allow people who were greedy and malcontent to
leave so they would not hamper the revolution for the rest of them.
After all if they are not going to help be part of the solution, then
let the U.S. have them. I don't think prisoners were shipped out.
I've never heard of any, unless they were foreign nationals being
repatriated or something like that.
But Freddy you have NEVER been to Cuba and don't know any Cubans except
the people in the local embassy near you. IF they allowed everyone who
wanted to go, Freddy, Havana would be a VERY small city and the rest of Cuba
largely vacant. You have NO idea what you are talking about. If the doors
were open, even government officials would leave. That's why in Cuba you
need "permission" to leave even for a VISIT.- Hide quoted text -
It is incredible how many government officials are leaving Cuba, as
well as others who are living fairly well, in relation to the average
Cuban. During the month of December of 2007 the Johnny Carson of Cuba,
Carlos Otero, defected. In addition, the group Tres de la Habana, two
star performers from the Cuban Ballet, and ten performers from the
Cuban circus, also defected.
Freddy was never the brightest kid in his class. The teachers made him
sit in the "slow freight" section. He can't put together all the exodus
while there is nobody fighting and dying to get IN to his idiot's paradise.
NONE of that registers on his little pea sized brain. He doesn't dare talk
to those who have left Cuba. My bet is that the annoying little ass HAS
argued with Cubans who have left and gone to Canada, but he YELLS at them
and TELLS them they left paradise, they wind up shrugging their shoulders
and walking away knowing they are talking to a blockhead. Freddy is
suffering one of the worst cases of intellectual constipation I have ever
seen.
f***@fredwilliamsFFFf.ca
2008-01-03 13:33:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by krp
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by f***@fredwilliamsFFFf.ca
Post by krp
Post by Hermogenes Giron
Post by krp
Post by redflag
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by redflag
I myself, on several occasions, have helped Cuban emigres to
translate and write letters to the INS and other U.S.
government agencies in order to facilitate or secure U.S.
visas for their relatives. It is a tortuos process full of
bureaucratic obstacles and dead ends that takes years.
You liar. Helping Cuban exiles? That will be the day.
The only thing you do Trapo Colorao es besarle el culo a un tirano
I speak whereof I know, and I know, from first hand experience,
that it is easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a
needle than for a Cuban to get a U.S. visa to travel here.
And that, my friend, is a fact.
No the FACT is that there are so MANY who want to come. Over
500,000 applications every year. SO let's get off the bullshit
here. IF it were possible there would be MORE Cubans here than
in Cuba.
The same could be said for any country in Latin America. That is
not an argument against Cuba. 4 millions Puerto Ricans live in
the US MORE than in the island, and thousands leave every year.
Exactly. There was a quota of 20,000 agreed to some years ago
and Cuba
wanted it to be higher, but the U.S. was the one limiting the
numberof immigrants. Then they don't even allow that many and
only let around 10,000 through. Cuba restricts no one from
leaving.
What Cuba WANTED was to keep flushing their prisons and mental clinics.
I expect they wanted to allow people who were greedy and malcontent to
leave so they would not hamper the revolution for the rest of them.
After all if they are not going to help be part of the solution,
then let the U.S. have them. I don't think prisoners were shipped
out. I've never heard of any, unless they were foreign nationals
being repatriated or something like that.
But Freddy you have NEVER been to Cuba and don't know any Cubans
except the people in the local embassy near you. IF they allowed
everyone who wanted to go, Freddy, Havana would be a VERY small city
and the rest of Cuba
largely vacant. You have NO idea what you are talking about. If the
doors were open, even government officials would leave. That's why
in Cuba you need "permission" to leave even for a VISIT.- Hide
quoted text -
It is incredible how many government officials are leaving Cuba, as
well as others who are living fairly well, in relation to the average
Cuban. During the month of December of 2007 the Johnny Carson of
Cuba, Carlos Otero, defected. In addition, the group Tres de la
Habana, two
star performers from the Cuban Ballet, and ten performers from the
Cuban circus, also defected.
Freddy was never the brightest kid in his class.
Actually I was. I also qualified for Mensa with room to spare.
Post by krp
The teachers made
him
sit in the "slow freight" section. He can't put together all the
exodus while there is nobody fighting and dying to get IN to his
idiot's paradise. NONE of that registers on his little pea sized
brain. He doesn't dare talk to those who have left Cuba. My bet is
that the annoying little ass HAS argued with Cubans who have left and
gone to Canada, but he YELLS at them and TELLS them they left
paradise,
I dont't yell at anyone. I'm a Quaker. Although I may leave that
movement.
Post by krp
they wind up shrugging their shoulders and walking away
knowing they are talking to a blockhead. Freddy is suffering one of
the worst cases of intellectual constipation I have ever seen.
As always it takes more than your saying it to make it so. Why do you
spread such lies? Why don't you focus on the issues instead?

--
Regards, Fred
<http://www.fredwilliams.ca/thesecretofmoney.html>
PL
2008-01-03 14:48:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by f***@fredwilliamsFFFf.ca
Post by krp
Post by Hermogenes Giron
Post by krp
Post by redflag
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by redflag
I myself, on several occasions, have helped Cuban emigres to
translate and write letters to the INS and other U.S.
government agencies in order to facilitate or secure U.S.
visas for their relatives. It is a tortuos process full of
bureaucratic obstacles and dead ends that takes years.
You liar. Helping Cuban exiles? That will be the day.
The only thing you do Trapo Colorao es besarle el culo a un tirano
I speak whereof I know, and I know, from first hand experience,
that it is easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a
needle than for a Cuban to get a U.S. visa to travel here.
And that, my friend, is a fact.
No the FACT is that there are so MANY who want to come. Over
500,000 applications every year. SO let's get off the bullshit
here. IF it were possible there would be MORE Cubans here than
in Cuba.
The same could be said for any country in Latin America. That is
not an argument against Cuba. 4 millions Puerto Ricans live in
the US MORE than in the island, and thousands leave every year.
Exactly. There was a quota of 20,000 agreed to some years ago
and Cuba
wanted it to be higher, but the U.S. was the one limiting the
numberof immigrants. Then they don't even allow that many and
only let around 10,000 through. Cuba restricts no one from
leaving.
What Cuba WANTED was to keep flushing their prisons and mental clinics.
I expect they wanted to allow people who were greedy and malcontent to
leave so they would not hamper the revolution for the rest of them.
After all if they are not going to help be part of the solution,
then let the U.S. have them. I don't think prisoners were shipped
out. I've never heard of any, unless they were foreign nationals
being repatriated or something like that.
But Freddy you have NEVER been to Cuba and don't know any Cubans
except the people in the local embassy near you. IF they allowed
everyone who wanted to go, Freddy, Havana would be a VERY small city
and the rest of Cuba
largely vacant. You have NO idea what you are talking about. If the
doors were open, even government officials would leave. That's why
in Cuba you need "permission" to leave even for a VISIT.- Hide
quoted text -
It is incredible how many government officials are leaving Cuba, as
well as others who are living fairly well, in relation to the average
Cuban. During the month of December of 2007 the Johnny Carson of
Cuba, Carlos Otero, defected. In addition, the group Tres de la
Habana, two
star performers from the Cuban Ballet, and  ten performers from the
Cuban circus, also defected.
    Freddy was never the brightest kid in his class.
        Actually I was.  I also qualified for Mensa with room to spare.
    The teachers made
    him
sit in the "slow freight" section. He can't put together all the
exodus while there is nobody fighting and dying to get IN to his
idiot's paradise. NONE of that registers on his little pea sized
brain. He doesn't dare talk to those who have left Cuba. My bet is
that the annoying little ass HAS argued with Cubans who have left and
gone to Canada, but he YELLS at them and TELLS them they left
paradise,
        I dont't yell at anyone.
You lie in a low voice you mean?
 I'm a Quaker.  
I would say more of a wannabee "squealer"

PL
krp
2008-01-04 01:35:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@fredwilliamsFFFf.ca
Post by krp
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by f***@fredwilliamsFFFf.ca
Post by krp
Post by Hermogenes Giron
Post by krp
Post by redflag
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by redflag
I myself, on several occasions, have helped Cuban emigres to
translate and write letters to the INS and other U.S.
government agencies in order to facilitate or secure U.S.
visas for their relatives. It is a tortuos process full of
bureaucratic obstacles and dead ends that takes years.
You liar. Helping Cuban exiles? That will be the day.
The only thing you do Trapo Colorao es besarle el culo a un tirano
I speak whereof I know, and I know, from first hand experience,
that it is easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a
needle than for a Cuban to get a U.S. visa to travel here.
And that, my friend, is a fact.
No the FACT is that there are so MANY who want to come. Over
500,000 applications every year. SO let's get off the bullshit
here. IF it were possible there would be MORE Cubans here than
in Cuba.
The same could be said for any country in Latin America. That is
not an argument against Cuba. 4 millions Puerto Ricans live in
the US MORE than in the island, and thousands leave every year.
Exactly. There was a quota of 20,000 agreed to some years ago
and Cuba
wanted it to be higher, but the U.S. was the one limiting the
numberof immigrants. Then they don't even allow that many and
only let around 10,000 through. Cuba restricts no one from
leaving.
What Cuba WANTED was to keep flushing their prisons and mental clinics.
I expect they wanted to allow people who were greedy and malcontent to
leave so they would not hamper the revolution for the rest of them.
After all if they are not going to help be part of the solution,
then let the U.S. have them. I don't think prisoners were shipped
out. I've never heard of any, unless they were foreign nationals
being repatriated or something like that.
But Freddy you have NEVER been to Cuba and don't know any Cubans
except the people in the local embassy near you. IF they allowed
everyone who wanted to go, Freddy, Havana would be a VERY small city
and the rest of Cuba
largely vacant. You have NO idea what you are talking about. If the
doors were open, even government officials would leave. That's why
in Cuba you need "permission" to leave even for a VISIT.- Hide
quoted text -
It is incredible how many government officials are leaving Cuba, as
well as others who are living fairly well, in relation to the average
Cuban. During the month of December of 2007 the Johnny Carson of
Cuba, Carlos Otero, defected. In addition, the group Tres de la
Habana, two
star performers from the Cuban Ballet, and ten performers from the
Cuban circus, also defected.
Freddy was never the brightest kid in his class.
Actually I was. I also qualified for Mensa with room to spare.
Post by krp
The teachers made
him
sit in the "slow freight" section. He can't put together all the
exodus while there is nobody fighting and dying to get IN to his
idiot's paradise. NONE of that registers on his little pea sized
brain. He doesn't dare talk to those who have left Cuba. My bet is
that the annoying little ass HAS argued with Cubans who have left and
gone to Canada, but he YELLS at them and TELLS them they left
paradise,
I dont't yell at anyone. I'm a Quaker. Although I may leave that
movement.
Post by krp
they wind up shrugging their shoulders and walking away
knowing they are talking to a blockhead. Freddy is suffering one of
the worst cases of intellectual constipation I have ever seen.
As always it takes more than your saying it to make it so. Why do you
spread such lies? Why don't you focus on the issues instead?
Lies? I am not the one trying to deny the testimony of over 2 MILLION
people Freddy, YOU are!
M***@hotmail.com
2008-01-04 02:53:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@fredwilliamsFFFf.ca
Post by krp
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by f***@fredwilliamsFFFf.ca
Post by krp
Post by Hermogenes Giron
Post by krp
Post by redflag
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by redflag
I myself, on several occasions, have helped Cuban emigres to
translate and write letters to the INS and other U.S.
government agencies in order to facilitate or secure U.S.
visas for their relatives. It is a tortuos process full of
bureaucratic obstacles and dead ends that takes years.
You liar. Helping Cuban exiles? That will be the day.
The only thing you do Trapo Colorao es besarle el culo a un tirano
I speak whereof I know, and I know, from first hand experience,
that it is easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a
needle than for a Cuban to get a U.S. visa to travel here.
And that, my friend, is a fact.
No the FACT is that there are so MANY who want to come. Over
500,000 applications every year. SO let's get off the bullshit
here. IF it were possible there would be MORE Cubans here than
in Cuba.
The same could be said for any country in Latin America. That is
not an argument against Cuba. 4 millions Puerto Ricans live in
the US MORE than in the island, and thousands leave every year.
Exactly. There was a quota of 20,000 agreed to some years ago
and Cuba
wanted it to be higher, but the U.S. was the one limiting the
numberof immigrants. Then they don't even allow that many and
only let around 10,000 through. Cuba restricts no one from
leaving.
What Cuba WANTED was to keep flushing their prisons and mental clinics.
I expect they wanted to allow people who were greedy and malcontent to
leave so they would not hamper the revolution for the rest of them.
After all if they are not going to help be part of the solution,
then let the U.S. have them. I don't think prisoners were shipped
out. I've never heard of any, unless they were foreign nationals
being repatriated or something like that.
But Freddy you have NEVER been to Cuba and don't know any Cubans
except the people in the local embassy near you. IF they allowed
everyone who wanted to go, Freddy, Havana would be a VERY small city
and the rest of Cuba
largely vacant. You have NO idea what you are talking about. If the
doors were open, even government officials would leave. That's why
in Cuba you need "permission" to leave even for a VISIT.- Hide
quoted text -
It is incredible how many government officials are leaving Cuba, as
well as others who are living fairly well, in relation to the average
Cuban. During the month of December of 2007 the Johnny Carson of
Cuba, Carlos Otero, defected. In addition, the group Tres de la
Habana, two
star performers from the Cuban Ballet, and ten performers from the
Cuban circus, also defected.
Freddy was never the brightest kid in his class.
Actually I was. I also qualified for Mensa with room to spare.
Post by krp
The teachers made
him
sit in the "slow freight" section. He can't put together all the
exodus while there is nobody fighting and dying to get IN to his
idiot's paradise. NONE of that registers on his little pea sized
brain. He doesn't dare talk to those who have left Cuba. My bet is
that the annoying little ass HAS argued with Cubans who have left and
gone to Canada, but he YELLS at them and TELLS them they left
paradise,
I dont't yell at anyone. I'm a Quaker. Although I may leave that
movement.
How can you be a Quaker and be a supporter of a Communist regime?
That's impossible. The first president of Cuba, Don Tomas Estrada
Palma was a Quaker. He was, and I am sorry to say this, the only
President of Cuba who was honest. He left the presidency without ONE
STOLEN PENNY. Had all the presidents of Cuba been like Don Tomas,
Cuba's history would have been very different.

By the way, the Quakers had very good school in the city of Holguin
and in Puerto Padre in Oriente province called Los Amigos. (Friends).
Holguin is the city krp's wife is from. Do you know what your friend
Fidel did. He took over all private and religious schools without any
remuneration and established Communist schools full of Marxist mumbo-
jumbo and not enough Math and Science.

Here is what a Cuban Quaker wrote:

"When an American asks me, "why did your family leave Cuba?" I really
have a problem answering in a neat well-defined 30 second American
style sound byte. Most Americans now days have accepted the leftist
story that says that we were all part of the corrupt, racist, mafia
infested, inhuman, capitalist, and oppressive white minority that
lived to destroy and kill the poor, and keep the workers in chains.
When I start by telling them that we were Quakers, and I discuss a few
of the things in this story, they question my honesty, and then they
hate me. They hate me because my existence challenges their reality."

You should spend a few minutes and read the full text of what he wrote
and you could learn a few things about my country, a country that I
left physically many years ago, but I never left spiritually.

Here is a link to article:

http://cubanstories.blogspot.com/2004/05/quakers-wore-guayaberas.html
Post by f***@fredwilliamsFFFf.ca
Post by krp
they wind up shrugging their shoulders and walking away
knowing they are talking to a blockhead. Freddy is suffering one of
the worst cases of intellectual constipation I have ever seen.
As always it takes more than your saying it to make it so. Why do you
spread such lies? Why don't you focus on the issues instead?
Fred. It is a figure of speech. But you know something...your mind is
constipated. Please take a laxative of FREEDOM and don't believe this
nonsense of equality, peace, paradise on earth that Communism promises
and nevwer delivers. You see Communism is a LIE and you know who is
the father of all lies.

By the way. I think you are good guy who believes what you say. You
are just a little constipated.
Post by f***@fredwilliamsFFFf.ca
--
Regards, Fred
<http://www.fredwilliams.ca/thesecretofmoney.html>- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
krp
2008-01-04 12:25:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by f***@fredwilliamsFFFf.ca
Post by krp
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by f***@fredwilliamsFFFf.ca
Post by krp
Post by Hermogenes Giron
Post by krp
Post by redflag
I speak whereof I know, and I know, from first hand experience,
that it is easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a
needle than for a Cuban to get a U.S. visa to travel here.
And that, my friend, is a fact.
No the FACT is that there are so MANY who want to come. Over
500,000 applications every year. SO let's get off the bullshit
here. IF it were possible there would be MORE Cubans here than
in Cuba.
The same could be said for any country in Latin America. That is
not an argument against Cuba. 4 millions Puerto Ricans live in
the US MORE than in the island, and thousands leave every year.
Exactly. There was a quota of 20,000 agreed to some years ago
and Cuba
wanted it to be higher, but the U.S. was the one limiting the
numberof immigrants. Then they don't even allow that many and
only let around 10,000 through. Cuba restricts no one from
leaving.
What Cuba WANTED was to keep flushing their prisons and mental clinics.
I expect they wanted to allow people who were greedy and malcontent to
leave so they would not hamper the revolution for the rest of them.
After all if they are not going to help be part of the solution,
then let the U.S. have them. I don't think prisoners were shipped
out. I've never heard of any, unless they were foreign nationals
being repatriated or something like that.
But Freddy you have NEVER been to Cuba and don't know any Cubans
except the people in the local embassy near you. IF they allowed
everyone who wanted to go, Freddy, Havana would be a VERY small city
and the rest of Cuba
largely vacant. You have NO idea what you are talking about. If the
doors were open, even government officials would leave. That's why
in Cuba you need "permission" to leave even for a VISIT.- Hide
quoted text -
It is incredible how many government officials are leaving Cuba, as
well as others who are living fairly well, in relation to the average
Cuban. During the month of December of 2007 the Johnny Carson of
Cuba, Carlos Otero, defected. In addition, the group Tres de la
Habana, two
star performers from the Cuban Ballet, and ten performers from the
Cuban circus, also defected.
Freddy was never the brightest kid in his class.
Actually I was. I also qualified for Mensa with room to spare.
Post by krp
The teachers made
him
sit in the "slow freight" section. He can't put together all the
exodus while there is nobody fighting and dying to get IN to his
idiot's paradise. NONE of that registers on his little pea sized
brain. He doesn't dare talk to those who have left Cuba. My bet is
that the annoying little ass HAS argued with Cubans who have left and
gone to Canada, but he YELLS at them and TELLS them they left
paradise,
I dont't yell at anyone. I'm a Quaker. Although I may leave that
movement.
How can you be a Quaker and be a supporter of a Communist regime?
That's impossible. The first president of Cuba, Don Tomas Estrada
Palma was a Quaker. He was, and I am sorry to say this, the only
President of Cuba who was honest. He left the presidency without ONE
STOLEN PENNY. Had all the presidents of Cuba been like Don Tomas,
Cuba's history would have been very different.
He said he's giving it up. For MARXISM! Had ANY of the other presidents
been like him.
Post by M***@hotmail.com
By the way, the Quakers had very good school in the city of Holguin
and in Puerto Padre in Oriente province called Los Amigos. (Friends).
Holguin is the city krp's wife is from. Do you know what your friend
Fidel did. He took over all private and religious schools without any
remuneration and established Communist schools full of Marxist mumbo-
jumbo and not enough Math and Science.
Many of the priests and nuns were either deported or jailed or shot. Ah
Marxism!!!!
Post by M***@hotmail.com
"When an American asks me, "why did your family leave Cuba?" I really
have a problem answering in a neat well-defined 30 second American
style sound byte. Most Americans now days have accepted the leftist
story that says that we were all part of the corrupt, racist, mafia
infested, inhuman, capitalist, and oppressive white minority that
lived to destroy and kill the poor, and keep the workers in chains.
When I start by telling them that we were Quakers, and I discuss a few
of the things in this story, they question my honesty, and then they
hate me. They hate me because my existence challenges their reality."
and you could learn a few things about my country, a country that I
left physically many years ago, but I never left spiritually.
http://cubanstories.blogspot.com/2004/05/quakers-wore-guayaberas.html
Freddy will be SURE he is a LYING CAPITALIST PIG CIA agent!!
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by f***@fredwilliamsFFFf.ca
Post by krp
they wind up shrugging their shoulders and walking away
knowing they are talking to a blockhead. Freddy is suffering one of
the worst cases of intellectual constipation I have ever seen.
As always it takes more than your saying it to make it so. Why do you
spread such lies? Why don't you focus on the issues instead?
Fred. It is a figure of speech. But you know something...your mind is
constipated. Please take a laxative of FREEDOM and don't believe this
nonsense of equality, peace, paradise on earth that Communism promises
and nevwer delivers. You see Communism is a LIE and you know who is
the father of all lies.
By the way. I think you are good guy who believes what you say. You
are just a little constipated.
Freddy is one of those TRUE BELIEVERS. Not real bright but a passionate
if mindless BELIEVER in Marxism. He is that angry dude by the side of the
road in the parade to display his emperor's new clothes. You will never
convince him that the emperor is naked. \
M***@hotmail.com
2008-01-05 19:22:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by krp
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by f***@fredwilliamsFFFf.ca
Post by krp
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by f***@fredwilliamsFFFf.ca
Post by krp
Post by Hermogenes Giron
Post by krp
Post by redflag
I speak whereof I know, and I know, from first hand experience,
that it is easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a
needle than for a Cuban to get a U.S. visa to travel here.
And that, my friend, is a fact.
No the FACT is that there are so MANY who want to come. Over
500,000 applications every year. SO let's get off the bullshit
here. IF it were possible there would be MORE Cubans here than
in Cuba.
The same could be said for any country in Latin America. That is
not an argument against Cuba. 4 millions Puerto Ricans live in
the US MORE than in the island, and thousands leave every year.
Exactly. There was a quota of 20,000 agreed to some years ago
and Cuba
wanted it to be higher, but the U.S. was the one limiting the
numberof immigrants. Then they don't even allow that many and
only let around 10,000 through. Cuba restricts no one from
leaving.
What Cuba WANTED was to keep flushing their prisons and mental clinics.
I expect they wanted to allow people who were greedy and malcontent to
leave so they would not hamper the revolution for the rest of them.
After all if they are not going to help be part of the solution,
then let the U.S. have them. I don't think prisoners were shipped
out. I've never heard of any, unless they were foreign nationals
being repatriated or something like that.
But Freddy you have NEVER been to Cuba and don't know any Cubans
except the people in the local embassy near you. IF they allowed
everyone who wanted to go, Freddy, Havana would be a VERY small city
and the rest of Cuba
largely vacant. You have NO idea what you are talking about. If the
doors were open, even government officials would leave. That's why
in Cuba you need "permission" to leave even for a VISIT.- Hide
quoted text -
It is incredible how many government officials are leaving Cuba, as
well as others who are living fairly well, in relation to the average
Cuban. During the month of December of 2007 the Johnny Carson of
Cuba, Carlos Otero, defected. In addition, the group Tres de la
Habana, two
star performers from the Cuban Ballet, and ten performers from the
Cuban circus, also defected.
Freddy was never the brightest kid in his class.
Actually I was. I also qualified for Mensa with room to spare.
Post by krp
The teachers made
him
sit in the "slow freight" section. He can't put together all the
exodus while there is nobody fighting and dying to get IN to his
idiot's paradise. NONE of that registers on his little pea sized
brain. He doesn't dare talk to those who have left Cuba. My bet is
that the annoying little ass HAS argued with Cubans who have left and
gone to Canada, but he YELLS at them and TELLS them they left
paradise,
I dont't yell at anyone. I'm a Quaker. Although I may leave that
movement.
How can you be a Quaker and be a supporter of a Communist regime?
That's impossible. The first president of Cuba, Don Tomas Estrada
Palma was a Quaker. He was, and I am sorry to say this, the only
President of Cuba who was honest. He left the presidency without ONE
STOLEN PENNY. Had all the presidents of Cuba been like Don Tomas,
Cuba's history would have been very different.
He said he's giving it up. For MARXISM! Had ANY of the other presidents
been like him.
I hope he changes his mind.
Post by krp
Post by M***@hotmail.com
By the way, the Quakers had very good school in the city of Holguin
and in Puerto Padre in Oriente province called Los Amigos. (Friends).
Holguin is the city krp's wife is from. Do you know what your friend
Fidel did. He took over all private and religious schools without any
remuneration and established Communist schools full of Marxist mumbo-
jumbo and not enough Math and Science.
Many of the priests and nuns were either deported or jailed or shot. Ah
Marxism!!!!
True. All religions were persecuted a great deal in Cuba under the
totalitarian regime, especially during the first 30+ years. Many
priests and ministers were exiled, jailed or killed. Some religions
like the Seventh Day Adventist, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Quakers
because of their pacifist or other beliefs that went against the
totalitarian state, suffered more than most.

Since the fall of the old USSR, the regime became more tolerant. It
was not because, all of a sudden, the Communist Party became
enlightened. The Castro regime needed the help of many European
countries. Castro had to project the regime as being more tolerant of
religious beliefs. The Europeans also like the regime spitting
virulent Anti-US slogans. I agree with the Catholic Bishop of Pinar
del Rio when he said that today there was freedom to worship in Cuba,
but there was no freedom of religion.
Post by krp
Post by M***@hotmail.com
"When an American asks me, "why did your family leave Cuba?" I really
have a problem answering in a neat well-defined 30 second American
style sound byte. Most Americans now days have accepted the leftist
story that says that we were all part of the corrupt, racist, mafia
infested, inhuman, capitalist, and oppressive white minority that
lived to destroy and kill the poor, and keep the workers in chains.
When I start by telling them that we were Quakers, and I discuss a few
of the things in this story, they question my honesty, and then they
hate me. They hate me because my existence challenges their reality."
and you could learn a few things about my country, a country that I
left physically many years ago, but I never left spiritually.
http://cubanstories.blogspot.com/2004/05/quakers-wore-guayaberas.html
Freddy will be SURE he is a LYING CAPITALIST PIG CIA agent!!
If he says that we'll tell truth: Freddy lies.
Post by krp
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by f***@fredwilliamsFFFf.ca
Post by krp
they wind up shrugging their shoulders and walking away
knowing they are talking to a blockhead. Freddy is suffering one of
the worst cases of intellectual constipation I have ever seen.
As always it takes more than your saying it to make it so. Why do you
spread such lies? Why don't you focus on the issues instead?
Fred. It is a figure of speech. But you know something...your mind is
constipated. Please take a laxative of FREEDOM and don't believe this
nonsense of equality, peace, paradise on earth that Communism promises
and nevwer delivers. You see Communism is a LIE and you know who is
the father of all lies.
By the way. I think you are good guy who believes what you say. You
are just a little constipated.
Freddy is one of those TRUE BELIEVERS. Not real bright but a passionate
if mindless BELIEVER in Marxism. He is that angry dude by the side of the
road in the parade to display his emperor's new clothes. You will never
convince him that the emperor is naked.
Perhaps one day, fred will see something that he can relate to that
will open his eyes and his heart to the horrible truth of life in the
tropical island of Dr. Kastro. I like to be an optimist.
krp
2008-01-05 21:35:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by krp
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by f***@fredwilliamsFFFf.ca
Post by krp
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by f***@fredwilliamsFFFf.ca
Post by krp
Post by Hermogenes Giron
Post by krp
Post by redflag
I speak whereof I know, and I know, from first hand experience,
that it is easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a
needle than for a Cuban to get a U.S. visa to travel here.
And that, my friend, is a fact.
No the FACT is that there are so MANY who want to come. Over
500,000 applications every year. SO let's get off the bullshit
here. IF it were possible there would be MORE Cubans here than
in Cuba.
The same could be said for any country in Latin America. That is
not an argument against Cuba. 4 millions Puerto Ricans live in
the US MORE than in the island, and thousands leave every year.
Exactly. There was a quota of 20,000 agreed to some years ago
and Cuba
wanted it to be higher, but the U.S. was the one limiting the
numberof immigrants. Then they don't even allow that many and
only let around 10,000 through. Cuba restricts no one from
leaving.
What Cuba WANTED was to keep flushing their prisons and mental clinics.
I expect they wanted to allow people who were greedy and
malcontent
to
leave so they would not hamper the revolution for the rest of them.
After all if they are not going to help be part of the solution,
then let the U.S. have them. I don't think prisoners were shipped
out. I've never heard of any, unless they were foreign nationals
being repatriated or something like that.
But Freddy you have NEVER been to Cuba and don't know any Cubans
except the people in the local embassy near you. IF they allowed
everyone who wanted to go, Freddy, Havana would be a VERY small city
and the rest of Cuba
largely vacant. You have NO idea what you are talking about. If the
doors were open, even government officials would leave. That's why
in Cuba you need "permission" to leave even for a VISIT.- Hide
quoted text -
It is incredible how many government officials are leaving Cuba, as
well as others who are living fairly well, in relation to the average
Cuban. During the month of December of 2007 the Johnny Carson of
Cuba, Carlos Otero, defected. In addition, the group Tres de la
Habana, two
star performers from the Cuban Ballet, and ten performers from the
Cuban circus, also defected.
Freddy was never the brightest kid in his class.
Actually I was. I also qualified for Mensa with room to spare.
Post by krp
The teachers made
him
sit in the "slow freight" section. He can't put together all the
exodus while there is nobody fighting and dying to get IN to his
idiot's paradise. NONE of that registers on his little pea sized
brain. He doesn't dare talk to those who have left Cuba. My bet is
that the annoying little ass HAS argued with Cubans who have left and
gone to Canada, but he YELLS at them and TELLS them they left
paradise,
I dont't yell at anyone. I'm a Quaker. Although I may leave that
movement.
How can you be a Quaker and be a supporter of a Communist regime?
That's impossible. The first president of Cuba, Don Tomas Estrada
Palma was a Quaker. He was, and I am sorry to say this, the only
President of Cuba who was honest. He left the presidency without ONE
STOLEN PENNY. Had all the presidents of Cuba been like Don Tomas,
Cuba's history would have been very different.
He said he's giving it up. For MARXISM! Had ANY of the other presidents
been like him.
I hope he changes his mind.
Post by krp
Post by M***@hotmail.com
By the way, the Quakers had very good school in the city of Holguin
and in Puerto Padre in Oriente province called Los Amigos. (Friends).
Holguin is the city krp's wife is from. Do you know what your friend
Fidel did. He took over all private and religious schools without any
remuneration and established Communist schools full of Marxist mumbo-
jumbo and not enough Math and Science.
Many of the priests and nuns were either deported or jailed or shot. Ah
Marxism!!!!
True. All religions were persecuted a great deal in Cuba under the
totalitarian regime, especially during the first 30+ years. Many
priests and ministers were exiled, jailed or killed. Some religions
like the Seventh Day Adventist, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Quakers
because of their pacifist or other beliefs that went against the
totalitarian state, suffered more than most.
Since the fall of the old USSR, the regime became more tolerant. It
was not because, all of a sudden, the Communist Party became
enlightened. The Castro regime needed the help of many European
countries. Castro had to project the regime as being more tolerant of
religious beliefs. The Europeans also like the regime spitting
virulent Anti-US slogans. I agree with the Catholic Bishop of Pinar
del Rio when he said that today there was freedom to worship in Cuba,
but there was no freedom of religion.
Post by krp
Post by M***@hotmail.com
"When an American asks me, "why did your family leave Cuba?" I really
have a problem answering in a neat well-defined 30 second American
style sound byte. Most Americans now days have accepted the leftist
story that says that we were all part of the corrupt, racist, mafia
infested, inhuman, capitalist, and oppressive white minority that
lived to destroy and kill the poor, and keep the workers in chains.
When I start by telling them that we were Quakers, and I discuss a few
of the things in this story, they question my honesty, and then they
hate me. They hate me because my existence challenges their reality."
and you could learn a few things about my country, a country that I
left physically many years ago, but I never left spiritually.
http://cubanstories.blogspot.com/2004/05/quakers-wore-guayaberas.html
Freddy will be SURE he is a LYING CAPITALIST PIG CIA agent!!
If he says that we'll tell truth: Freddy lies.
Freddy and Danny live in their own alternate reality.
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by krp
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by f***@fredwilliamsFFFf.ca
Post by krp
they wind up shrugging their shoulders and walking away
knowing they are talking to a blockhead. Freddy is suffering one of
the worst cases of intellectual constipation I have ever seen.
As always it takes more than your saying it to make it so.
Why
do you
spread such lies? Why don't you focus on the issues instead?
Fred. It is a figure of speech. But you know something...your mind is
constipated. Please take a laxative of FREEDOM and don't believe this
nonsense of equality, peace, paradise on earth that Communism promises
and nevwer delivers. You see Communism is a LIE and you know who is
the father of all lies.
By the way. I think you are good guy who believes what you say. You
are just a little constipated.
Freddy is one of those TRUE BELIEVERS. Not real bright but a passionate
if mindless BELIEVER in Marxism. He is that angry dude by the side of the
road in the parade to display his emperor's new clothes. You will never
convince him that the emperor is naked.
Perhaps one day, fred will see something that he can relate to that
will open his eyes and his heart to the horrible truth of life in the
tropical island of Dr. Kastro. I like to be an optimist.
I have met a few people who function on the intellectual level of a
lobster. Lobsters are not as smart as frogs. If you drop a frog into hot or
boiling water he'll jump out, a Lobster won't. A lobster will sit there and
boil to death. Freddy is like older computers running on READ ONLY MEMORY.
No matter what you input they will give you the same answers again and again
and cannot adapt to new programming. Freddy believes what he needs to
believe, he can't face the bloody history of Marxism, that it is the
bloodiest in human history. He can't face that it doesn't work and people
flee it. You can tell him all you want about the "boat people" fleeing Viet
Nam and he can NEVER accept it. The tens of thousands of Chinese who fled,
the North Koreans, not the Cubans. The testimony of TWO MILLION Cubans
doesn't penetrate that concrete block. He will always be and endless loop
tape player with the EXTREMELY STUPID Marxist party line. Freddy is the
captain of the deck chairs on the Titanic and you just CANNOT convince him
the ship is sinking. Even though he's drowning he is SURE his ship is
setting speed records.
M***@hotmail.com
2008-01-05 22:14:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by f***@fredwilliamsFFFf.ca
Post by krp
Post by Hermogenes Giron
Post by krp
Post by redflag
me.
I speak whereof I know, and I know, from first hand
experience,
that it is easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a
needle than for a Cuban to get a U.S. visa to travel here.
And that, my friend, is a fact.
No the FACT is that there are so MANY who want to come. Over
500,000 applications every year. SO let's get off the
bullshit
here. IF it were possible there would be MORE Cubans here
than
in Cuba.
The same could be said for any country in Latin America. That
is
not an argument against Cuba. 4 millions Puerto Ricans live in
the US MORE than in the island, and thousands leave every year.
Exactly. There was a quota of 20,000 agreed to some years ago
and Cuba
wanted it to be higher, but the U.S. was the one limiting the
numberof immigrants. Then they don't even allow that many and
only let around 10,000 through. Cuba restricts no one from
leaving.
What Cuba WANTED was to keep flushing their prisons and mental
clinics.
I expect they wanted to allow people who were greedy and
malcontent
to
leave so they would not hamper the revolution for the rest of them.
After all if they are not going to help be part of the solution,
then let the U.S. have them. I don't think prisoners were shipped
out. I've never heard of any, unless they were foreign nationals
being repatriated or something like that.
But Freddy you have NEVER been to Cuba and don't know any Cubans
except the people in the local embassy near you. IF they allowed
everyone who wanted to go, Freddy, Havana would be a VERY small city
and the rest of Cuba
largely vacant. You have NO idea what you are talking about. If the
doors were open, even government officials would leave. That's why
in Cuba you need "permission" to leave even for a VISIT.- Hide
quoted text -
It is incredible how many government officials are leaving Cuba, as
well as others who are living fairly well, in relation to the average
Cuban. During the month of December of 2007 the Johnny Carson of
Cuba, Carlos Otero, defected. In addition, the group Tres de la
Habana, two
star performers from the Cuban Ballet, and  ten performers from the
Cuban circus, also defected.
    Freddy was never the brightest kid in his class.
        Actually I was.  I also qualified for Mensa with room to
spare.
    The teachers made
    him
sit in the "slow freight" section. He can't put together all the
exodus while there is nobody fighting and dying to get IN to his
idiot's paradise. NONE of that registers on his little pea sized
brain. He doesn't dare talk to those who have left Cuba. My bet is
that the annoying little ass HAS argued with Cubans who have left and
gone to Canada, but he YELLS at them and TELLS them they left
paradise,
        I dont't yell at anyone.  I'm a Quaker.  Although I may leave
that
movement.
How can you be a Quaker and be a supporter of a Communist regime?
That's impossible.  The first president of Cuba, Don Tomas Estrada
Palma was a Quaker. He was, and I am sorry to say this, the only
President of Cuba who was honest. He left  the presidency without ONE
STOLEN PENNY. Had all the presidents of Cuba been like Don Tomas,
Cuba's history would have been very different.
    He said he's giving it up. For MARXISM!  Had ANY of the other
presidents
been like him.
I hope he changes his mind.
Post by M***@hotmail.com
By the way, the Quakers had very good school in the city of Holguin
and in Puerto Padre in Oriente province called Los Amigos. (Friends).
Holguin is the city krp's wife is from. Do you know what your friend
Fidel did. He took over all private and religious schools without any
remuneration and established Communist schools full of Marxist mumbo-
jumbo and not enough Math and Science.
    Many of the priests and nuns were either deported or jailed or shot.
Ah
Marxism!!!!
True. All religions were persecuted a great deal in Cuba under the
totalitarian regime, especially during the first 30+ years. Many
priests and ministers were exiled, jailed or killed. Some religions
like the Seventh Day Adventist, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Quakers
because of their pacifist or other beliefs that went against the
totalitarian state, suffered more than most.
Since the fall of the old USSR, the regime became more tolerant. It
was not because, all of a sudden, the Communist Party became
enlightened. The Castro regime needed the help of many European
countries. Castro had to project the regime as being more tolerant of
religious beliefs. The Europeans also like the regime spitting
virulent Anti-US slogans. I agree with the Catholic Bishop of Pinar
del Rio when he said that today there was freedom to worship in Cuba,
but there was no freedom of religion.
Post by M***@hotmail.com
"When an American asks me, "why did your family leave Cuba?" I really
have a problem answering in a neat well-defined 30 second American
style sound byte. Most Americans now days have accepted the leftist
story that says that we were all part of the corrupt, racist, mafia
infested, inhuman, capitalist, and oppressive white minority that
lived to destroy and kill the poor, and keep the workers in chains.
When I start by telling them that we were Quakers, and I discuss a few
of the things in this story, they question my honesty, and then they
hate me. They hate me because my existence challenges their reality."
and you could learn a few things about my country, a country that I
left physically many years ago, but I never left spiritually.
http://cubanstories.blogspot.com/2004/05/quakers-wore-guayaberas.html
    Freddy will be SURE he is a LYING CAPITALIST PIG CIA agent!!
If he says that we'll tell truth: Freddy lies.
    Freddy and Danny live in their own alternate reality.
In the case of Dan I feel he is beyond hope. I don't believe he is
acting in good faith. I feel differently about Fred. I sense the man
has a conscience.
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by M***@hotmail.com
they wind up shrugging their shoulders and walking away
knowing they are talking to a blockhead. Freddy is suffering one of
the worst cases of intellectual constipation I have ever seen.
        As always it takes more than your saying it to make it so.
Why
do you
spread such lies?  Why don't you focus on the issues instead?
Fred. It is a figure of speech. But you know something...your mind is
constipated. Please take a laxative of FREEDOM and don't believe this
nonsense of equality, peace, paradise on earth that Communism promises
and nevwer delivers. You see Communism is a LIE and you know who is
the father of all lies.
By the way. I think you are good guy who believes what you say. You
are just a little constipated.
    Freddy is one of those TRUE BELIEVERS. Not real bright but a
passionate
if mindless BELIEVER in Marxism. He is that angry dude by the side of the
road in the parade to display his emperor's new clothes.  You will never
convince him that the emperor is naked.
Perhaps one day, fred will see something that he can relate to that
will open his eyes and his heart to the horrible truth of life in the
tropical island of Dr. Kastro. I like to be an optimist.
    I have met a few people who function on the intellectual level of a
lobster. Lobsters are not as smart as frogs. If you drop a frog into hot or
boiling water he'll jump out, a Lobster won't.  A lobster will sit there and
boil to death. Freddy is like older computers running on READ ONLY MEMORY.
No matter what you input they will give you the same answers again and again
and cannot adapt to new programming. Freddy believes what he needs to
believe, he can't face the bloody history of Marxism, that it is the
bloodiest in human history. He can't face that it doesn't work and people
flee it. You can tell him all you want about the "boat people" fleeing Viet
Nam and he can NEVER accept it. The tens of thousands of Chinese who fled,
the North Koreans, not the Cubans. The testimony of TWO MILLION Cubans
doesn't penetrate that concrete block. He will always be and endless loop
tape player with the EXTREMELY STUPID Marxist party line. Freddy is the
captain of the deck chairs on the Titanic and you just CANNOT convince him
the ship is sinking. Even though he's drowning he is SURE his ship is
setting speed records.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
krp
2008-01-06 13:04:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by krp
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by f***@fredwilliamsFFFf.ca
Post by krp
Post by Hermogenes Giron
Post by krp
Post by redflag
me.
I speak whereof I know, and I know, from first hand
experience,
that it is easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a
needle than for a Cuban to get a U.S. visa to travel here.
And that, my friend, is a fact.
No the FACT is that there are so MANY who want to come. Over
500,000 applications every year. SO let's get off the
bullshit
here. IF it were possible there would be MORE Cubans here
than
in Cuba.
The same could be said for any country in Latin America. That
is
not an argument against Cuba. 4 millions Puerto Ricans live in
the US MORE than in the island, and thousands leave every year.
Exactly. There was a quota of 20,000 agreed to some years ago
and Cuba
wanted it to be higher, but the U.S. was the one limiting the
numberof immigrants. Then they don't even allow that many and
only let around 10,000 through. Cuba restricts no one from
leaving.
What Cuba WANTED was to keep flushing their prisons and mental
clinics.
I expect they wanted to allow people who were greedy and
malcontent
to
leave so they would not hamper the revolution for the rest of them.
After all if they are not going to help be part of the solution,
then let the U.S. have them. I don't think prisoners were shipped
out. I've never heard of any, unless they were foreign nationals
being repatriated or something like that.
But Freddy you have NEVER been to Cuba and don't know any Cubans
except the people in the local embassy near you. IF they allowed
everyone who wanted to go, Freddy, Havana would be a VERY small city
and the rest of Cuba
largely vacant. You have NO idea what you are talking about. If the
doors were open, even government officials would leave. That's why
in Cuba you need "permission" to leave even for a VISIT.- Hide
quoted text -
It is incredible how many government officials are leaving Cuba, as
well as others who are living fairly well, in relation to the average
Cuban. During the month of December of 2007 the Johnny Carson of
Cuba, Carlos Otero, defected. In addition, the group Tres de la
Habana, two
star performers from the Cuban Ballet, and ten performers from
the
Cuban circus, also defected.
Freddy was never the brightest kid in his class.
Actually I was. I also qualified for Mensa with room to
spare.
Post by krp
The teachers made
him
sit in the "slow freight" section. He can't put together all the
exodus while there is nobody fighting and dying to get IN to his
idiot's paradise. NONE of that registers on his little pea sized
brain. He doesn't dare talk to those who have left Cuba. My bet is
that the annoying little ass HAS argued with Cubans who have left and
gone to Canada, but he YELLS at them and TELLS them they left
paradise,
I dont't yell at anyone. I'm a Quaker. Although I may leave
that
movement.
How can you be a Quaker and be a supporter of a Communist regime?
That's impossible. The first president of Cuba, Don Tomas Estrada
Palma was a Quaker. He was, and I am sorry to say this, the only
President of Cuba who was honest. He left the presidency without ONE
STOLEN PENNY. Had all the presidents of Cuba been like Don Tomas,
Cuba's history would have been very different.
He said he's giving it up. For MARXISM! Had ANY of the other
presidents
been like him.
I hope he changes his mind.
Post by M***@hotmail.com
By the way, the Quakers had very good school in the city of Holguin
and in Puerto Padre in Oriente province called Los Amigos. (Friends).
Holguin is the city krp's wife is from. Do you know what your friend
Fidel did. He took over all private and religious schools without any
remuneration and established Communist schools full of Marxist mumbo-
jumbo and not enough Math and Science.
Many of the priests and nuns were either deported or jailed or shot. Ah
Marxism!!!!
True. All religions were persecuted a great deal in Cuba under the
totalitarian regime, especially during the first 30+ years. Many
priests and ministers were exiled, jailed or killed. Some religions
like the Seventh Day Adventist, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Quakers
because of their pacifist or other beliefs that went against the
totalitarian state, suffered more than most.
Since the fall of the old USSR, the regime became more tolerant. It
was not because, all of a sudden, the Communist Party became
enlightened. The Castro regime needed the help of many European
countries. Castro had to project the regime as being more tolerant of
religious beliefs. The Europeans also like the regime spitting
virulent Anti-US slogans. I agree with the Catholic Bishop of Pinar
del Rio when he said that today there was freedom to worship in Cuba,
but there was no freedom of religion.
Post by M***@hotmail.com
"When an American asks me, "why did your family leave Cuba?" I really
have a problem answering in a neat well-defined 30 second American
style sound byte. Most Americans now days have accepted the leftist
story that says that we were all part of the corrupt, racist, mafia
infested, inhuman, capitalist, and oppressive white minority that
lived to destroy and kill the poor, and keep the workers in chains.
When I start by telling them that we were Quakers, and I discuss a few
of the things in this story, they question my honesty, and then they
hate me. They hate me because my existence challenges their reality."
and you could learn a few things about my country, a country that I
left physically many years ago, but I never left spiritually.
http://cubanstories.blogspot.com/2004/05/quakers-wore-guayaberas.html
Freddy will be SURE he is a LYING CAPITALIST PIG CIA agent!!
If he says that we'll tell truth: Freddy lies.
Freddy and Danny live in their own alternate reality.
In the case of Dan I feel he is beyond hope. I don't believe he is
acting in good faith. I feel differently about Fred. I sense the man
has a conscience.
In Dan's case he is pathological. With Fred he's just not the sharpest
pencil in the box. I met guys like him in undergrad school. All kinds of
passion misdirected by ignorance. I had to deal with some who were
instructors who were just plainly full of shit. Even the texts we were using
contradicted their shit, but if you argued with them (especially
successfully) your grades suffered, so you just went along with their shit
to get the grades.
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by krp
they wind up shrugging their shoulders and walking away
knowing they are talking to a blockhead. Freddy is suffering one of
the worst cases of intellectual constipation I have ever seen.
As always it takes more than your saying it to make it so.
Why
do you
spread such lies? Why don't you focus on the issues instead?
Fred. It is a figure of speech. But you know something...your mind is
constipated. Please take a laxative of FREEDOM and don't believe this
nonsense of equality, peace, paradise on earth that Communism promises
and nevwer delivers. You see Communism is a LIE and you know who is
the father of all lies.
By the way. I think you are good guy who believes what you say. You
are just a little constipated.
Freddy is one of those TRUE BELIEVERS. Not real bright but a passionate
if mindless BELIEVER in Marxism. He is that angry dude by the side of the
road in the parade to display his emperor's new clothes. You will never
convince him that the emperor is naked.
Perhaps one day, fred will see something that he can relate to that
will open his eyes and his heart to the horrible truth of life in the
tropical island of Dr. Kastro. I like to be an optimist.
I have met a few people who function on the intellectual level of a
lobster. Lobsters are not as smart as frogs. If you drop a frog into hot or
boiling water he'll jump out, a Lobster won't. A lobster will sit there
and
boil to death. Freddy is like older computers running on READ ONLY MEMORY.
No matter what you input they will give you the same answers again and again
and cannot adapt to new programming. Freddy believes what he needs to
believe, he can't face the bloody history of Marxism, that it is the
bloodiest in human history. He can't face that it doesn't work and people
flee it. You can tell him all you want about the "boat people" fleeing Viet
Nam and he can NEVER accept it. The tens of thousands of Chinese who fled,
the North Koreans, not the Cubans. The testimony of TWO MILLION Cubans
doesn't penetrate that concrete block. He will always be and endless loop
tape player with the EXTREMELY STUPID Marxist party line. Freddy is the
captain of the deck chairs on the Titanic and you just CANNOT convince him
the ship is sinking. Even though he's drowning he is SURE his ship is
setting speed records.
M***@hotmail.com
2008-01-06 21:07:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by krp
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by f***@fredwilliamsFFFf.ca
Post by krp
Post by Hermogenes Giron
Post by krp
Post by redflag
me.
I speak whereof I know, and I know, from first hand
experience,
that it is easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of
a
needle than for a Cuban to get a U.S. visa to travel here.
And that, my friend, is a fact.
No the FACT is that there are so MANY who want to come.
Over
500,000 applications every year. SO let's get off the
bullshit
here. IF it were possible there would be MORE Cubans here
than
in Cuba.
The same could be said for any country in Latin America.
That
is
not an argument against Cuba. 4 millions Puerto Ricans live
in
the US MORE than in the island, and thousands leave every
year.
Exactly. There was a quota of 20,000 agreed to some years ago
and Cuba
wanted it to be higher, but the U.S. was the one limiting the
numberof immigrants. Then they don't even allow that many and
only let around 10,000 through. Cuba restricts no one from
leaving.
What Cuba WANTED was to keep flushing their prisons and mental
clinics.
I expect they wanted to allow people who were greedy and
malcontent
to
leave so they would not hamper the revolution for the rest of
them.
After all if they are not going to help be part of the solution,
then let the U.S. have them. I don't think prisoners were shipped
out. I've never heard of any, unless they were foreign nationals
being repatriated or something like that.
But Freddy you have NEVER been to Cuba and don't know any Cubans
except the people in the local embassy near you. IF they allowed
everyone who wanted to go, Freddy, Havana would be a VERY small
city
and the rest of Cuba
largely vacant. You have NO idea what you are talking about. If the
doors were open, even government officials would leave. That's why
in Cuba you need "permission" to leave even for a VISIT.- Hide
quoted text -
It is incredible how many government officials are leaving Cuba, as
well as others who are living fairly well, in relation to the average
Cuban. During the month of December of 2007 the Johnny Carson of
Cuba, Carlos Otero, defected. In addition, the group Tres de la
Habana, two
star performers from the Cuban Ballet, and ten performers from
the
Cuban circus, also defected.
Freddy was never the brightest kid in his class.
Actually I was. I also qualified for Mensa with room to
spare.
Post by krp
The teachers made
him
sit in the "slow freight" section. He can't put together all the
exodus while there is nobody fighting and dying to get IN to his
idiot's paradise. NONE of that registers on his little pea sized
brain. He doesn't dare talk to those who have left Cuba. My bet is
that the annoying little ass HAS argued with Cubans who have left and
gone to Canada, but he YELLS at them and TELLS them they left
paradise,
I dont't yell at anyone. I'm a Quaker. Although I may leave
that
movement.
How can you be a Quaker and be a supporter of a Communist regime?
That's impossible. The first president of Cuba, Don Tomas Estrada
Palma was a Quaker. He was, and I am sorry to say this, the only
President of Cuba who was honest. He left the presidency without ONE
STOLEN PENNY. Had all the presidents of Cuba been like Don Tomas,
Cuba's history would have been very different.
He said he's giving it up. For MARXISM! Had ANY of the other
presidents
been like him.
I hope he changes his mind.
Post by M***@hotmail.com
By the way, the Quakers had very good school in the city of Holguin
and in Puerto Padre in Oriente province called Los Amigos. (Friends).
Holguin is the city krp's wife is from. Do you know what your friend
Fidel did. He took over all private and religious schools without any
remuneration and established Communist schools full of Marxist mumbo-
jumbo and not enough Math and Science.
Many of the priests and nuns were either deported or jailed or shot. Ah
Marxism!!!!
True. All religions were persecuted a great deal in Cuba under the
totalitarian regime, especially during the first 30+ years. Many
priests and ministers were exiled, jailed or killed. Some religions
like the Seventh Day Adventist, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Quakers
because of their pacifist or other beliefs that went against the
totalitarian state, suffered more than most.
Since the fall of the old USSR, the regime became more tolerant. It
was not because, all of a sudden, the Communist Party became
enlightened. The Castro regime needed the help of many European
countries. Castro had to project the regime as being more tolerant of
religious beliefs. The Europeans also like the regime spitting
virulent Anti-US slogans. I agree with the Catholic Bishop of Pinar
del Rio when he said that today there was freedom to worship in Cuba,
but there was no freedom of religion.
Post by M***@hotmail.com
"When an American asks me, "why did your family leave Cuba?" I really
have a problem answering in a neat well-defined 30 second American
style sound byte. Most Americans now days have accepted the leftist
story that says that we were all part of the corrupt, racist, mafia
infested, inhuman, capitalist, and oppressive white minority that
lived to destroy and kill the poor, and keep the workers in chains.
When I start by telling them that we were Quakers, and I discuss a few
of the things in this story, they question my honesty, and then they
hate me. They hate me because my existence challenges their reality."
and you could learn a few things about my country, a country that I
left physically many years ago, but I never left spiritually.
http://cubanstories.blogspot.com/2004/05/quakers-wore-guayaberas.html
Freddy will be SURE he is a LYING CAPITALIST PIG CIA agent!!
If he says that we'll tell truth: Freddy lies.
Freddy and Danny live in their own alternate reality.
In the case of Dan I feel he is beyond hope. I don't believe he is
acting in good faith. I feel differently about Fred. I sense the man
has a conscience.
    In Dan's case he is pathological. With Fred he's just not the sharpest
pencil in the box. I met guys like him in undergrad school. All kinds of
passion misdirected by ignorance. I had to deal with some who were
instructors who were just plainly full of shit. Even the texts we were using
contradicted their shit, but if you argued with them (especially
successfully) your grades suffered, so you just went along with their shit
to get the grades.
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by krp
they wind up shrugging their shoulders and walking away
knowing they are talking to a blockhead. Freddy is suffering one of
the worst cases of intellectual constipation I have ever seen.
As always it takes more than your saying it to make it so.
Why
do you
spread such lies? Why don't you focus on the issues instead?
Fred. It is a figure of speech. But you know something...your mind is
constipated. Please take a laxative of FREEDOM and don't believe this
nonsense of equality, peace, paradise on earth that Communism promises
and nevwer delivers. You see Communism is a LIE and you know who is
the father of all lies.
By the way. I think you are good guy who believes what you say. You
are just a little constipated.
Freddy is one of those TRUE BELIEVERS. Not real bright but a passionate
if mindless BELIEVER in Marxism. He is that angry dude by the side of the
road in the parade to display his emperor's new clothes. You will never
convince him that the emperor is naked.
Perhaps one day, fred will see something that he can relate to that
will open his eyes and his heart to the horrible truth of life in the
tropical island of Dr. Kastro. I like to be an optimist.
I have met a few people who function on the intellectual level of a
lobster. Lobsters are not as smart as frogs. If you drop a frog into hot or
boiling water he'll jump out, a Lobster won't. A lobster will sit there
and
boil to death. Freddy is like older computers running on READ ONLY MEMORY.
No matter what you input they will give you the same answers again and again
and cannot adapt to new programming. Freddy believes what he needs to
believe, he can't face the bloody history of Marxism, that it is the
bloodiest in human history. He can't face that it doesn't work and people
flee it. You can tell him all you want about the "boat people" fleeing Viet
Nam and he can NEVER accept it. The tens of thousands of Chinese who fled,
the- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -...
read more »
Maybe Fred will start thinking by himself and open his eyes to the
obvious.
krp
2008-01-07 14:40:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by krp
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by krp
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by f***@fredwilliamsFFFf.ca
Post by krp
Post by Hermogenes Giron
Post by krp
Post by redflag
to
me.
I speak whereof I know, and I know, from first hand
experience,
that it is easier for a rich man to pass through the eye
of
a
needle than for a Cuban to get a U.S. visa to travel
here.
And that, my friend, is a fact.
No the FACT is that there are so MANY who want to come.
Over
500,000 applications every year. SO let's get off the
bullshit
here. IF it were possible there would be MORE Cubans here
than
in Cuba.
The same could be said for any country in Latin America.
That
is
not an argument against Cuba. 4 millions Puerto Ricans live
in
the US MORE than in the island, and thousands leave every
year.
Exactly. There was a quota of 20,000 agreed to some years ago
and Cuba
wanted it to be higher, but the U.S. was the one limiting the
numberof immigrants. Then they don't even allow that many and
only let around 10,000 through. Cuba restricts no one from
leaving.
What Cuba WANTED was to keep flushing their prisons and mental
clinics.
I expect they wanted to allow people who were greedy and
malcontent
to
leave so they would not hamper the revolution for the rest of
them.
After all if they are not going to help be part of the solution,
then let the U.S. have them. I don't think prisoners were shipped
out. I've never heard of any, unless they were foreign nationals
being repatriated or something like that.
But Freddy you have NEVER been to Cuba and don't know any Cubans
except the people in the local embassy near you. IF they allowed
everyone who wanted to go, Freddy, Havana would be a VERY small
city
and the rest of Cuba
largely vacant. You have NO idea what you are talking about.
If
the
doors were open, even government officials would leave. That's why
in Cuba you need "permission" to leave even for a VISIT.- Hide
quoted text -
It is incredible how many government officials are leaving
Cuba,
as
well as others who are living fairly well, in relation to the average
Cuban. During the month of December of 2007 the Johnny Carson of
Cuba, Carlos Otero, defected. In addition, the group Tres de la
Habana, two
star performers from the Cuban Ballet, and ten performers from
the
Cuban circus, also defected.
Freddy was never the brightest kid in his class.
Actually I was. I also qualified for Mensa with room to
spare.
Post by krp
The teachers made
him
sit in the "slow freight" section. He can't put together all the
exodus while there is nobody fighting and dying to get IN to his
idiot's paradise. NONE of that registers on his little pea sized
brain. He doesn't dare talk to those who have left Cuba. My bet is
that the annoying little ass HAS argued with Cubans who have
left
and
gone to Canada, but he YELLS at them and TELLS them they left
paradise,
I dont't yell at anyone. I'm a Quaker. Although I may leave
that
movement.
How can you be a Quaker and be a supporter of a Communist regime?
That's impossible. The first president of Cuba, Don Tomas Estrada
Palma was a Quaker. He was, and I am sorry to say this, the only
President of Cuba who was honest. He left the presidency without ONE
STOLEN PENNY. Had all the presidents of Cuba been like Don Tomas,
Cuba's history would have been very different.
He said he's giving it up. For MARXISM! Had ANY of the other
presidents
been like him.
I hope he changes his mind.
Post by M***@hotmail.com
By the way, the Quakers had very good school in the city of Holguin
and in Puerto Padre in Oriente province called Los Amigos. (Friends).
Holguin is the city krp's wife is from. Do you know what your friend
Fidel did. He took over all private and religious schools without any
remuneration and established Communist schools full of Marxist mumbo-
jumbo and not enough Math and Science.
Many of the priests and nuns were either deported or jailed or shot. Ah
Marxism!!!!
True. All religions were persecuted a great deal in Cuba under the
totalitarian regime, especially during the first 30+ years. Many
priests and ministers were exiled, jailed or killed. Some religions
like the Seventh Day Adventist, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Quakers
because of their pacifist or other beliefs that went against the
totalitarian state, suffered more than most.
Since the fall of the old USSR, the regime became more tolerant. It
was not because, all of a sudden, the Communist Party became
enlightened. The Castro regime needed the help of many European
countries. Castro had to project the regime as being more tolerant of
religious beliefs. The Europeans also like the regime spitting
virulent Anti-US slogans. I agree with the Catholic Bishop of Pinar
del Rio when he said that today there was freedom to worship in Cuba,
but there was no freedom of religion.
Post by M***@hotmail.com
"When an American asks me, "why did your family leave Cuba?" I really
have a problem answering in a neat well-defined 30 second American
style sound byte. Most Americans now days have accepted the leftist
story that says that we were all part of the corrupt, racist, mafia
infested, inhuman, capitalist, and oppressive white minority that
lived to destroy and kill the poor, and keep the workers in chains.
When I start by telling them that we were Quakers, and I discuss a few
of the things in this story, they question my honesty, and then they
hate me. They hate me because my existence challenges their reality."
and you could learn a few things about my country, a country that I
left physically many years ago, but I never left spiritually.
http://cubanstories.blogspot.com/2004/05/quakers-wore-guayaberas.html
Freddy will be SURE he is a LYING CAPITALIST PIG CIA agent!!
If he says that we'll tell truth: Freddy lies.
Freddy and Danny live in their own alternate reality.
In the case of Dan I feel he is beyond hope. I don't believe he is
acting in good faith. I feel differently about Fred. I sense the man
has a conscience.
In Dan's case he is pathological. With Fred he's just not the sharpest
pencil in the box. I met guys like him in undergrad school. All kinds of
passion misdirected by ignorance. I had to deal with some who were
instructors who were just plainly full of shit. Even the texts we were using
contradicted their shit, but if you argued with them (especially
successfully) your grades suffered, so you just went along with their shit
to get the grades.
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by krp
they wind up shrugging their shoulders and walking away
knowing they are talking to a blockhead. Freddy is suffering one of
the worst cases of intellectual constipation I have ever seen.
As always it takes more than your saying it to make it so.
Why
do you
spread such lies? Why don't you focus on the issues instead?
Fred. It is a figure of speech. But you know something...your mind is
constipated. Please take a laxative of FREEDOM and don't believe this
nonsense of equality, peace, paradise on earth that Communism promises
and nevwer delivers. You see Communism is a LIE and you know who is
the father of all lies.
By the way. I think you are good guy who believes what you say. You
are just a little constipated.
Freddy is one of those TRUE BELIEVERS. Not real bright but a passionate
if mindless BELIEVER in Marxism. He is that angry dude by the side of the
road in the parade to display his emperor's new clothes. You will never
convince him that the emperor is naked.
Perhaps one day, fred will see something that he can relate to that
will open his eyes and his heart to the horrible truth of life in the
tropical island of Dr. Kastro. I like to be an optimist.
I have met a few people who function on the intellectual level of a
lobster. Lobsters are not as smart as frogs. If you drop a frog into hot or
boiling water he'll jump out, a Lobster won't. A lobster will sit there
and
boil to death. Freddy is like older computers running on READ ONLY MEMORY.
No matter what you input they will give you the same answers again and again
and cannot adapt to new programming. Freddy believes what he needs to
believe, he can't face the bloody history of Marxism, that it is the
bloodiest in human history. He can't face that it doesn't work and people
flee it. You can tell him all you want about the "boat people" fleeing Viet
Nam and he can NEVER accept it. The tens of thousands of Chinese who fled,
the-
Maybe Fred will start thinking by himself and open his eyes to the obvious.
No, Mike, like I have said before, met his type in undergrad school.
They are clueless. They have READ ONLY MEMORY. They cannot accept the input
of new information. No matter what you do with a turkey like Freddy he's
gonna play Polka music for the rest of his life.

krp
2008-01-01 14:06:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hermogenes Giron
Post by krp
Post by redflag
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by redflag
I myself, on several occasions, have helped Cuban emigres to
translate and write letters to the INS and other U.S. government
agencies in order to facilitate or secure U.S. visas for their
relatives. It is a tortuos process full of bureaucratic obstacles
and dead ends that takes years.
You liar. Helping Cuban exiles? That will be the day.
The only thing you do Trapo Colorao es besarle el culo a un tirano
I speak whereof I know, and I know, from first hand experience,
that it is easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a
needle than for a Cuban to get a U.S. visa to travel here.
And that, my friend, is a fact.
No the FACT is that there are so MANY who want to come. Over 500,000
applications every year. SO let's get off the bullshit here.
IF it were possible there would be MORE Cubans here than in Cuba.
The same could be said for any country in Latin America. That is not an
argument against Cuba. 4 millions Puerto Ricans live in the US MORE than
in the island, and thousands leave every year.
Actually that's bullshit.With notable exceptions the people of other
Latin American nations can travel freely to the U.S. - their governments
don't limit their free travel unlike Cuba. Puerto Ricans are considered U.S.
citizens. We're proud to have them here. However most of the Puerto Ricans
here are second and third generation and many 4th generation residents. Do
you want to start comparing Puerto Rico with Cuba? People travel freely back
and forth. I grew up in Wisconsin but live in Florida and have for almost 30
years. Does that make me a refugee from Wisconsin? I can go back at any time
just as can the people from Puerto Rico who live here. We consider them as
fellow Americans.
Hermogenes Giron
2008-01-01 19:55:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by krp
Post by Hermogenes Giron
Post by krp
Post by redflag
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by redflag
I myself, on several occasions, have helped Cuban emigres to
translate and write letters to the INS and other U.S. government
agencies in order to facilitate or secure U.S. visas for their
relatives. It is a tortuos process full of bureaucratic obstacles
and dead ends that takes years.
You liar. Helping Cuban exiles? That will be the day.
The only thing you do Trapo Colorao es besarle el culo a un tirano
I speak whereof I know, and I know, from first hand experience,
that it is easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a
needle than for a Cuban to get a U.S. visa to travel here.
And that, my friend, is a fact.
No the FACT is that there are so MANY who want to come. Over 500,000
applications every year. SO let's get off the bullshit here.
IF it were possible there would be MORE Cubans here than in Cuba.
The same could be said for any country in Latin America. That is not an
argument against Cuba. 4 millions Puerto Ricans live in the US MORE than
in the island, and thousands leave every year.
Actually that's bullshit.With notable exceptions the people of other
Latin American nations can travel freely to the U.S. - their governments
don't limit their free travel unlike Cuba.
People can{t travel iof they do not have a visa from the country they
want to visit, it is VERY hard to get a visa to the US. It was hard
before 9-11 it is even harder now. That is why Cubans get on rafts, if
Peruvians were closer, they also would be balseros.



Puerto Ricans are considered U.S.
Post by krp
citizens. We're proud to have them here. However most of the Puerto Ricans
here are second and third generation and many 4th generation residents.
What is your pont_ The point is, 4 million Puerto Ricans live in the US
becaus eof US policies in Puerto Rico and the complicity of the local
colonial stooges. Yes, you are porund to have them to do the cheap labor
many Ricans are forced to do since the beginning of the 20th century. Or
do you think that cigar makers in the 1910s, or tomato pickers in the
1950s, or seamstresses in the 1950s were enjoying the American Dream?
Why do you think that of all Latinos Puerto Ricans are the ones that
cling more to their culture? A hospitable climate for them in the US? I
remember going to college and all my Cuban friends had scholarships, we
the "US citizens" didn't.



Do
Post by krp
you want to start comparing Puerto Rico with Cuba? People travel freely back
and forth. I grew up in Wisconsin but live in Florida and have for almost 30
years. Does that make me a refugee from Wisconsin? I can go back at any time
just as can the people from Puerto Rico who live here. We consider them as
fellow Americans.
Nobody said PR's are political refugees, they are economic refugees
because of US foreign policy in Puerto Rico.

In you're case you are probably a climate refugee, Wisconsin is
supercold (and boring).
krp
2008-01-02 04:59:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by krp
Post by Hermogenes Giron
Post by krp
Post by redflag
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by redflag
I myself, on several occasions, have helped Cuban emigres to
translate and write letters to the INS and other U.S. government
agencies in order to facilitate or secure U.S. visas for their
relatives. It is a tortuos process full of bureaucratic obstacles
and dead ends that takes years.
You liar. Helping Cuban exiles? That will be the day.
The only thing you do Trapo Colorao es besarle el culo a un tirano
I speak whereof I know, and I know, from first hand experience,
that it is easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a
needle than for a Cuban to get a U.S. visa to travel here.
And that, my friend, is a fact.
No the FACT is that there are so MANY who want to come. Over 500,000
applications every year. SO let's get off the bullshit here.
IF it were possible there would be MORE Cubans here than in Cuba.
The same could be said for any country in Latin America. That is not an
argument against Cuba. 4 millions Puerto Ricans live in the US MORE than
in the island, and thousands leave every year.
Actually that's bullshit.With notable exceptions the people of other
Latin American nations can travel freely to the U.S. - their governments
don't limit their free travel unlike Cuba.
People can{t travel iof they do not have a visa from the country they want
to visit, it is VERY hard to get a visa to the US. It was hard before 9-11
it is even harder now. That is why Cubans get on rafts, if Peruvians were
closer, they also would be balseros.
Peruvians come here anyway, IF you weren't so ignorant you'd know that.
However, KNOWING Peruvians who have some here and KNOWING Cubans who have
come here they come for VASTLY different reasons. Did you know that over 90%
of the Peruvians who come here will go home on their own? Not being
deported, just returning home with their earnings.
Post by krp
Puerto Ricans are considered U.S. citizens. We're proud to have them
here. However most of the Puerto Ricans here are second and third
generation and many 4th generation residents.
What is your pont_ The point is, 4 million Puerto Ricans live in the US
becaus eof US policies in Puerto Rico and the complicity of the local
colonial stooges. Yes, you are porund to have them to do the cheap labor
many Ricans are forced to do since the beginning of the 20th century. Or
do you think that cigar makers in the 1910s, or tomato pickers in the
1950s, or seamstresses in the 1950s were enjoying the American Dream? Why
do you think that of all Latinos Puerto Ricans are the ones that cling
more to their culture? A hospitable climate for them in the US? I remember
going to college and all my Cuban friends had scholarships, we the "US
citizens" didn't.
You are crazy. Only a tiny fraction of the population of Puerto Rico
hold such feelings. And weenie, Puerto Ricans earn the same wages here as
any other Americans do. They also have the minimum wage law, it's Federal.
You know guy, most immigrants cling to their culture for the first couple
generations, and then it starts to fall away. Even Cubans cling to THEIR
culture. Look at Emilio and Gloria Estefan. I don't seem them stopping
being Cubans OR anyone asking them to.
Post by krp
Do you want to start comparing Puerto Rico with Cuba? People travel freely
back and forth. I grew up in Wisconsin but live in Florida and have for
almost 30 years. Does that make me a refugee from Wisconsin? I can go back
at any time just as can the people from Puerto Rico who live here. We
consider them as fellow Americans.
Nobody said PR's are political refugees, they are economic refugees
because of US foreign policy in Puerto Rico.
No more refugges than I was when I moved to Florida from Wisconsin.
In you're case you are probably a climate refugee, Wisconsin is supercold
(and boring).
Wisconsin is cold but anything but boring. In the summer it is a
beautiful place. I just like Florida.Some of my Puerto Rican friends say
they came to Florida for a milder climate.
PL
2008-01-01 18:02:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hermogenes Giron
Post by krp
Post by redflag
[...]
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by redflag
I myself, on several occasions, have helped Cuban emigres to
translate and write letters to the INS and other U.S. government
agencies in order to facilitate or secure U.S. visas for their
relatives. It is a tortuos process full of bureaucratic obstacles
and dead ends that takes years.
You liar. Helping Cuban exiles? That will be the day.
The only thing you do Trapo Colorao es besarle el culo a un tirano
I speak whereof I know, and I know, from first hand experience,
that it is easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a
needle than for a Cuban to get a U.S. visa to travel here.
And that, my friend, is a fact.
No the FACT is that there are so MANY who want to come. Over 500,000
applications every year. SO let's get off the bullshit here.
IF it were possible there would be MORE Cubans here than in Cuba.
The same could be said for any country in Latin America. That is not an
argument against Cuba.
I guess the most damning argument againts Cuba is the fact that people need
to apply for an exit visas to leave the country, no?
A violation of human rights.
Do you support that violation?

Universal Declaration of Human Rights:

Article 13.

1. Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence
within the borders of each state.
2. Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own,
and to return to his country.

http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

For a full overview of the restrictions imposed on freedom of movement (both
within Cuba and to travel outside) see:
http://www.cubaverdad.net/freedom_of_movement.htm

PL
krp
2008-01-02 04:46:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by PL
Post by Hermogenes Giron
Post by krp
Post by redflag
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by redflag
I myself, on several occasions, have helped Cuban emigres to
translate and write letters to the INS and other U.S. government
agencies in order to facilitate or secure U.S. visas for their
relatives. It is a tortuos process full of bureaucratic obstacles
and dead ends that takes years.
You liar. Helping Cuban exiles? That will be the day.
The only thing you do Trapo Colorao es besarle el culo a un tirano
I speak whereof I know, and I know, from first hand experience,
that it is easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a
needle than for a Cuban to get a U.S. visa to travel here.
And that, my friend, is a fact.
No the FACT is that there are so MANY who want to come. Over 500,000
applications every year. SO let's get off the bullshit here.
IF it were possible there would be MORE Cubans here than in Cuba.
The same could be said for any country in Latin America. That is not an
argument against Cuba.
I guess the most damning argument againts Cuba is the fact that people
need to apply for an exit visas to leave the country, no?
Well beyond that 100% of his premise is wrong. There are NOT 500,000
Costa Ricans wanting to FLEE to the U.S. They can come and go pretty much as
they wish. Cubans who come to the U.S. want to STAY and not go back. There
are people from other Latin nations who want to come to the U.S. but they
usually want to come for solely economic reasons. I know many people from
Peru who have come here. Like many Mexicans they come to work and earn
enough money to go back home and build a life there. Start a business or
some such. Cubans who come want to stay.
krp
2007-12-31 05:45:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by redflag
Post by PL
Post by Barry Schier
M[iami] H[erald]: Cubans drown in attempt to reach U.S.
CubaNews Message #38908 of 38909
These Cubans should be understood to be what they are: victims of U.S.
policy toward Cuba,
actually: they are victims of the repression in Cuba.
Cuba violates the human rights of it's people and even denies them the
most basic freedom of movement: the right to enter and leave the country
as they choose.
That is a barefaced lie. It is the office of the U.S. Cuban section
in Havana that limits the ammount of visas precisely to create the problem
of illegal exits.
No that quota was negotiated by Cuba.
Hermogenes Giron
2007-12-31 18:39:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by krp
Post by redflag
Post by PL
Post by Barry Schier
M[iami] H[erald]: Cubans drown in attempt to reach U.S.
CubaNews Message #38908 of 38909
These Cubans should be understood to be what they are: victims of U.S.
policy toward Cuba,
actually: they are victims of the repression in Cuba.
Cuba violates the human rights of it's people and even denies them the
most basic freedom of movement: the right to enter and leave the country
as they choose.
That is a barefaced lie. It is the office of the U.S. Cuban section
in Havana that limits the ammount of visas precisely to create the problem
of illegal exits.
No that quota was negotiated by Cuba.
Wrong!
krp
2008-01-01 13:55:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hermogenes Giron
Post by krp
Post by redflag
Post by PL
Post by Barry Schier
M[iami] H[erald]: Cubans drown in attempt to reach U.S.
CubaNews Message #38908 of 38909
These Cubans should be understood to be what they are: victims of U.S.
policy toward Cuba,
actually: they are victims of the repression in Cuba.
Cuba violates the human rights of it's people and even denies them the
most basic freedom of movement: the right to enter and leave the country
as they choose.
That is a barefaced lie. It is the office of the U.S. Cuban section
in Havana that limits the ammount of visas precisely to create the
problem of illegal exits.
No that quota was negotiated by Cuba.
Wrong!
Correct. Sorry it was negotiated between the two countries. 20,000 was
the number Havana would accept. The U.S. agreed to turn back those it could
intercept and to make a good faith effort to do so.
PL
2008-01-01 18:00:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by redflag
Post by PL
Post by Barry Schier
M[iami] H[erald]: Cubans drown in attempt to reach U.S.
CubaNews Message #38908 of 38909
These Cubans should be understood to be what they are: victims of U.S.
policy toward Cuba,
actually: they are victims of the repression in Cuba.
Cuba violates the human rights of it's people and even denies them the
most basic freedom of movement: the right to enter and leave the country
as they choose.
That is a barefaced lie.
Nope.
A fact.
Cutting the links to the relevant data doesn't change the facts:
http://www.cubaverdad.net/freedom_of_movement.htm


Universal Declaration of Human Rights:


Article 13.

1.. Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the
borders of each state.

2.. Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to
return to his country.

http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html



Recent news on migration from Cuba



Castro's Cuba.



1. Right to freedom of movement and residence within Cuba.



2. Right to leave the country.

a.. PVE - Permiso de Viaje al Extranjero.

b.. PRE - Permiso de Residencia al Extranjero.

c.. Medical doctors: the special case.

Cuban Laws:

1. Right to freedom of movement and residence within Cuba.

Decree 217: Heightened Control of Internal Movement

In a public address on April 4, 1997, President Castro urged the populace to
fight against the "indiscipline" favored by the "enemy" and demonstrated by
"illegal immigration" to Havana and announced that the state was planning to
halt such movement.184 He justified such actions by explaining that free
movement to the capital would endanger Cuba's security due to the state's
insufficient control and knowledge of the identities of Havana's residents
and guests. International human rights law assures the right to liberty of
movement within a country's borders and the right to enter and leave one's
country of origin.185 President Castro called upon the Committees for the
Defense of the Revolution (Comités para la Defensa de la Revolución, CDRs),
pro-government groups that have taken part in intimidations of government
opponents, to work with the police to gather information on Havana
residents. The president also mentioned problems with overcrowding,
overbuilding, and crime that had resulted from increased population
pressures in Havana. On April 22, 1997, President Castro signed Decree 217,
creating internal migratory regulations for Havana.

Decree 217 explains restrictions on internal movement as being due to public
health, welfare, and public order concerns. While these issues in some
circumstances justify narrowly-tailored restrictions on movement, President
Castro's prior statements highlighting the government's interest in
minimizing "indiscipline" and maintaining tight control over citizens'
movement for security reasons call into question the government's motivation
in creating Decree 217. By late April 1997, the Cuban press announced that
more than 1,600 "illegal residents" of Havana had been returned to their
home provinces "using persuasive methods."186 By mid-May, many more Havana
residents had received government notices that they had forty-eight hours to
regularize their status in the city or face fines and the "obligation to
return immediately to their place of origin."187 The government's provision
of an extremely brief period for Havana residents to demonstrate the
legitimacy of their presence in the capital raised additional concerns about
whether the Cuban authorities were ensuring sufficient due process
guarantees. By June 1998, the Cuban government reported that some 27,717
people had left Havana since the law took effect, although not necessarily
due to its application, while 22,560 others had moved to Havana, resulting
in a net population decrease of over 5,000 residents.188 While diplomats
noted that the law had not resulted in massive round-ups and deportations,
Cuban migrants to Havana expressed frustration that they could not choose
where to live and that police demands for their personal papers and proof of
"legal" residency had increased.189

http://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/cuba/Cuba996-03.htm

Decree 217 prohibits persons in other provinces from moving into Havana on
the grounds that if internal migration was left unchecked, the city's
problems regarding housing, public transport, water, and electrical supplies
would become worse; visits to the city were permissible. Police frequently
checked the identification of persons on the streets, and if someone from
another province was found living in Havana illegally, that person was fined
$12 (300 pesos) and sent back home. Fines were $40 (1,000 pesos) for those
who resided illegally in the neighborhoods of Old Havana and Cerro. Human
rights observers noted that while the decree affected migration countrywide,
it targeted individuals and families predominantly of African descent from
the more impoverished eastern provinces.

On June 1, police in Havana province entered the neighborhood of Buena
Esperanza to remove persons from the eastern provinces living in the area
without authorization. An unknown number of men were removed in trucks on
that date, while women and children were given 72 hours to depart (see
Section 1.d.).

http://www.ruleoflawandcuba.fsu.edu/report-usstate.cfm

in 1997, Castro implemented Decree 217, which was designed to "control the
migration flow from poorer provinces to the capital city of Havana." In
effect, this specifically targeted the poor black and mulatto population
concentrated in the eastern provinces. "The decree also resulted in numerous
credible reports that said many desperate blacks and mulatto squatters, not
having official permission to reside in Havana under Decree 217, are
forcibly evicted from their homes and sent back to the countryside.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/4/9/192449.shtml

A new documentary by a young Cuban filmmaker has cast a harsh spotlight on
the housing and other serious problems faced by the thousands of Cubans who
move illegally from the provinces to Havana in search of better lives.

The migrants, mostly from eastern Cuba and known as ''Palestinians'' because
they lack legal residency in Havana, often are forced to live in shanty
towns on the edges of the capital and expelled by police back to their
hometowns.

''The phenomenon of forcible return continues to exist, although the police
proceed silently and with some secrecy,'' said Elizardo Sánchez, president
of the illegal but tolerated Cuban Commission for Human Rights and National
Reconciliation.

Sánchez estimated that dozens of people are expelled from Havana every week
by bus or train after being detained for failure to produce documents
confirming their legal residence in Havana. Repeat violators are taken to
court, although the sanctions consist only of fines and official
''banishment'' from the capital for several years.



Source: "Film casts harsh light on problems in Havana."
Original source link: http://www.miamiherald.com/581/story/163899.html

Archive copy: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/32256



Also see:

Cuba and Inequality



2. Right to leave the country.

The Penal Code also defines the crime of salida illegal del país, "illegal
exit from country." Under Penal Code Articles 216 and 217, those caught
trying to leave the country without the permission of the government can be
fined or imprisoned for up to three years if they have not used violence and
up to eight years if force or intimidation is used. In cases where passenger
vessels or airplanes are hijacked, the charge is usually one of piratería,
"piracy." Under Penal Code Article 117, piracy carries a penalty of up to 20
years imprisonment, or a possible sentence of death if there is loss of life
or risk to the lives of others.25

In the past three decades, thousands of Cubans have been imprisoned for
trying to leave the island without permission. In 1994, illegal exit
prisoners were thought to constitute the largest category of political
prisoners in Cuba. In 1990 alone, there were 335 inmates convicted of
illegal exit serving time in a single prison in Havana, the Combinado del
Este.26

Under the 1995 U.S.-Cuba immigration agreement, the Cuban government
promised to "ensure that no action is taken against those migrants returned
to Cuba as a consequence of their attempt to emigrate illegally."27 However,
the Cuban government still has neither eliminated nor amended Penal Code
Articles 216 and 217 to reflect this commitment. Although recently there
appears to be a trend toward lighter penalties – e.g., fines and/or house
arrest – particularly in cases of first-time offenders, Articles 216 and 217
are still used to punish people for trying to leave the country without
permission. That underscores the fact that the threat of punishment
continues to hang over the heads of those who are returned to Cuba following
attempts to leave without authorization. The current status of the U.S.-Cuba
immigration agreement and the condition of Cubans who have been repatriated
to Cuba are discussed in Chapter XVI, Section C, of this report.

See: http://www.worldpolicy.org/globalrights/carib/1997-cuba.html#penal

Back to top.



PVE - Permiso de Viaje al Extranjero.

Does this mean that Cubans are totally unable to travel? No. Cubans travel
on official missions and can travel privately given a government permit.
These permits are referred to as the PVE (Permiso de Viaje al Extranjero)
commonly referred to as the "carta blanca".

The process starts with a "carta de invitación", an invitation to a Cuban by
a foreign national (resident). This invitation needs to be made in a Cuban
consulate (abroad) and can no longer be made at a "consultaría jurídica
internacional" in Cuba since May 2007. In this "letter" the foreigner
formally invites the Cuban to visit him or her in his country. After getting
a passport the Cuban can then apply for the PVE. The PVE is authorized (or
not) based on the information the governments holds about the person. A
criminal record, bad marks in the permanent record for any form of civil
disobedience, a bad CDR report, relatives that are involved in dissident
activities, to be "bajo de FAR" (of age to be called up for military
service, but not having performed it yet) which means basically from 16
onwards, to be "too young" and even a further education (medical doctors)
are common reasons to refuse the permit to travel. There is no formal way to
appeal the decision. It is basically up to the government to allow or
disallow travel. The PVE allows a stay abroad of up to 11 months. The whole
cost of the process (invitation - passport - PVE) is over U$ 600.

Note that this includes the PVE for one month. For each additional month (up
to a total of 11) an extra fee needs to be paid. A Cuban that tries to
return to Cuba without a valid PVE (with paid extensions) in his passport
will actually be refused by international airlines as they are held liable
for the cost if they allow people with an invalid PVE on the plane. The risk
is that the person is not allowed to enter Cuba.

http://www.cubaminrex.cu/Consulares/inicio_consulares.asp

Important update:

A new Cuban government regulation that took effect Wednesday May 2 2007 will
make it more difficult for people abroad to invite relatives and friends on
the island to visit them.

Resolution 87/2007, issued by the Foreign Ministry, requires such
invitations to be submitted through Cuban consulates abroad, notarized and
in accordance with the laws of the country where they are requested.

But the consulates will ''have the authority to reject the invitation when
there are elements that recommend that,'' added the resolution, published in
the official gazette.

May 2007 rules:

a.. Press Reports

b..
http://www.cubaverdad.net/data/travel_restrictions_for_cubans_may_2007.pdf

c.. Resolucion 87/2007 Minrex

d.. http://www.cubaverdad.net/data/cartas-de-invitacion.pdf



PRE - Permiso de Residencia al Extranjero.

A Cuban that marries a person that is a non-resident thereby has no
automatic right to join his or her partner. In order to be allowed to join
your partner abroad one has to obtain a PRE (Permiso de Residencia al
Extranjero). This is the formal permit for a Cuban to take up residence
outside of Cuba. The document also entitles the bearer to take up residence
abroad while being allowed to enter and leave Cuba without the need to apply
for any further travel documents. It also ensures that inheritance and
property rights are maintained (some limits apply). Whenever returning to
Cuba to stay in his former home or with relatives the Cuban has to report
his presence to the authorities.

Again restrictions apply. The best know exception is medical personnel.
First only doctors, now also nurses. But also recent graduates from other
faculties that have not performed their complete "free service" to the
state are not allowed to leave the country to join their partners.

http://www.embacuba.nl/consulaffairs.htm#SOLICITUD%20PRE

Back to top.



Medical doctors: the special case.

Recent News on the plight of medical doctors

As lots of university graduates medical doctors have to perform a number of
years of free service for the state. Doctors had to perform 3 years as
service in "payment" for their education.

Cuba - Act No. 1254 respecting social service and its regulations issued by
Decree No. 3771 of 1974 provided that Cuban citizens who graduate in higher
education or as middle-level technicians or through regular courses for
primary school teachers, are obliged to perform social service (for the
duration of three years), in accordance with the planning and priorities for
development work laid down by the Government. Unjustified refusal to perform
social service entails temporary or permanent disqualifications from
exercising his or her profession, which is recorded in the workbook of the
person concerned. The Government has indicated that the provisions relative
to temporary or permanent disqualification and everybody knows.

http://www.ilo.org/public/english/standards/relm/ilc/ilc96/pdf/rep-iii-1b.pdf

This system has worked for years. Being a doctor (or other university
graduate) was no real impediment to leave the country once one had completed
the 3 years service.

From 1999 onwards the attitude changed as the Cuban regime had started to
"rent out doctors" to other countries (1) and NGO's. The Cuban government
realized that its doctors had a "commercial value" and that allowing them to
emigrate (even after completing their obligations to the government) would
reduce Cuba's "earning power". Doctors were sent (against payment) to
countries like Venezuela (doctors for oil), Zimbabwe, South Africa, Namibia,
... The Cuban regime tried to deny these deals (especially in the case of
Venezuela), but was soon disproved. The whole industry of renting out
doctors brings in more than U$ 750 million annually for Cuba. "I think
medical services will have replaced tourism as our most important source of
revenue in 2005," said Garcia, who directs the Cuban Economy Study Center at
Havana University. (2)

1999: MINSAP regulation 54.14 (3)
"Moreover, since 1999, Cuban physicians have not been able to leave Cuba
with proper documentation and permits according to the MINSAP regulation
Number 54.14 According to this regulation, medical doctors and dentists must
serve 3 to 5 years in designated areas in the island of Cuba before they are
considered for a permission to leave the island. In this manner, Cuban
physicians are blatantly discriminated and made to suffer higher penalties
than the rest of the professionals. "

Note that it says "considered" for permission. that permission is in no way
guaranteed and this process itself can again take years.

"Resolution 54 denies exit permits to medical professionals until they have
performed 3 to 5 years of service in their profession after requesting
permission to travel abroad."

" In February a group of 31 medical professionals sent a letter to the
authorities protesting the Government's decision not to allow them to
proceed with their legal emigration. These medical professionals were
granted immigrant status by other countries, but the Ministry of Health had
refused to grant them permission to secure exit permits. The doctors made
the document public. The Government responded by terminating their
employment, relocating them to remote and undesirable health care
facilities, or ostracizing them." (4)

In 2002 health minister Damodar Peña Penton said that doctors who want to
emigrate should face stiffer requirements.

"The health department requires that doctors who request permission to
emigrate spend three to five years at posts specified by authorities in the
region where the medial practioners live.
We have to increase the strength of the evaluations of the re-settled
doctors and our control over them," warned Peña during a meeting with
regional medical directors, according to a source who sought anonymity.
A poor evaluation of a doctor who seeks to emigrate means that he or she has
to spend more work time before leaving." (5)

The current situation is one of total dependence of doctors on the
"goodwill" of the Cuban government. The despair this creates is clear.
Marriages brake up and people take to leaving Cuba in an illegal manner as
this doctor did on the "taxi boat".(6)

Refusing to go abroad as a doctor can also lead to sanctions under Cuban
law:



Cuba - section 220 of the Labour Code: a sentence of imprisonment of from
six months to two years may be imposed on a person who, by breach of the
duties placed on him by his office, employment, occupation or profession in
a state economic unit (particularly of his duties relating to the observance
of the standards or standard-setting instructions and other rules and
instructions concerning technological discipline) causes harm or substantial
prejudice to the production output or to the rendering of services by the
unit or to its equipment, machines, machinery, tools or other technical
devices. The Committee has noted the information provided by the Government
in its report (including the documents annexed to the report), to the effect
that any sentences of correctional labour imposed for violations of this
provision are subject to the person sentenced being willing to perform such
labour.
http://www.ilo.org/public/english/standards/relm/ilc/ilc96/pdf/rep-iii-1b.pdf


Footnotes:

(1) "Castro's "Doctor Diplomacy", Originally published in the Medical
Sentinel 2000;5(5):163-166. Association of American Physicians and Surgeons.

http://www.haciendapub.com/article47.html

A distinction is usually made between the short-term temporary flows which
occur when countries such as China and Cuba send health personnel abroad to
earn foreign exchange
http://www.ilo.org/public/english/dialogue/sector/papers/health/wp209.pdf



(2) Venezuela:

"Cuba denies medics-for-oil trade", Sapa-AFP, 10/10/2000.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/81

"CUBAN BARTER SYSTEM DOES NOT FAVOR VENEZUELA", UNIVERSAL PRESS SYNDICATE,
Nov. 2000.

http://www.uexpress.com/georgieannegeyer/?uc_full_date=20001103

"Cuba, Venezuela Sign Oil Deal", The Associated Press, October 30, 2000.

http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/venezuela/oil-deal.htm

"Venezuela and Cuba trade oil for doctors", Andy Webb-Vidal and Marc Frank,
Financial Times, October 11 2004.

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/12bd92f8-1bae-11d9-8af6-00000e2511c8.html

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/13248 (In Spanish)

"Cuba and Venezuela Deepen Ties with Medical-Oil Swap", NewsMax.com Wires,
July 13, 2005.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/7/13/101957.shtml

" Venezuela medics march over jobs", BBC NEWS, 2005/07/15.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4688117.stm

"Using oil to spread revolution", The Economist Newspaper, Jul 28th 2005.

http://www.economist.com/world/la/displayStory.cfm?story_id=4232330

"HOW VENEZUELA SUBSIDIZES THE CASTRO REGIME", Cuba Transition Project, Issue
10, April 2005.

http://ctp.iccas.miami.edu/FACTS_Web/Cuba Facts Issue 10 April 2005.htm

"Cuba's medical services becoming major moneymaker", South Florida Sun
Sentinel, Dec.18 2005.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/19469

"Medical know-how boosts Cuba's wealth ", BBC, Jan. 17 2006.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4583668.stm



Zimbabwe:

"The income to Castro's purse from this "doctor diplomacy" in Zimbabwe alone
is estimated at $1.2 million (U.S.) per month."

Gaither C. Diserción en Zimbabwe empaña la "diplomacia médica" de Castro. El
Nuevo Herald, June, 12, 2000.



Total:

"According to a Cuban economist, overall earnings from the export of
medical, teaching and other professional services could reach $750m (€586m,
£404m) this year, most of it from Venezuela."

"Castro's doctors give Chávez shot in arm", Financial Times, 2/9/05.

http://www.americas.org/item_17883



Malawi:

The ministry's Director of International Corporation Joseph Chite told the
Public Accounts Committee recently that the agreement to have students from
Malawi trained in various fields in Cuba has turned out to be expensive for
Malawi and the students suffer in Cuba because they are not well
looked after.

He said the Cuba demands that the Malawi pays fees for its students, many of
whom were sent to study medicine, information technology and athletics but
the Cuban government demands that the expatriates Cuba sends to Malawi be
fully paid by the Malawi government.

Chite was answering a question from PAC members who wanted to know how the
bilateral agreement with the government of Cuba was working.

"Malawi is not utilizing the agreement because the situation on the ground
is different. We are even thinking of withdrawing the remaining student in
Cuba because the conditions he is living is are very pathetic ," Chite said.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/26293




(3) "Castro's "Doctor Diplomacy", Originally published in the Medical
Sentinel 2000;5(5):163-166. Association of American Physicians and Surgeons.

http://www.haciendapub.com/article47.html

Also: "GRADUACIÓN CIENCIAS MÉDICAS CURSO 2002-2003"

http://www.16deabril.sld.cu/rev/213/graduacion.html



(4) "Country Reports on Human Rights Practices - 2001", Released by the
Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor, March 4, 2002

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2001/wha/8333.htm



(5) "Health minister asks tighter restrictions on doctors who want to
emigrate", Omar Ruiz, Grupo Decoro, Cubanet, December 9, 2002.

http://www.cubanet.org/CNews/y02/dec02/09e1.htm

"Ministro de Salud pide más rigor para médicos que quieren emigrar", Omar
Ruiz, Grupo Decoro, Cubanet, 6 de diciembre, 2002.

http://www.cubanet.org/CNews/y02/dec02/06a3.htm



(6) "Floating taxi family hails ride out of Cuba", New York Daily, June 21,
2005.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16355
Post by redflag
It is the office of the U.S. Cuban section
in Havana that limits the ammount of visas precisely to create the problem
of illegal exits.
Nope.
- Cuban try to go to lots of countries, not just the US, in all cases they
need an exit visa
- Cuba frequently denies eixt visas to lots of people like Raul Rivero to
receive his award from the European parliament and lots of others.
- people holding a valid entry visa to the US are denied exit visas
Monday, March 13, 2006
Castro retiene a 533 cubanos con visa para EEUU
http://cubadata.blogspot.com/2006/03/castro-retiene-533-cubanos-con-visa.html

Note that:
A. the right to travel is universal and not a “right to emigrate”. Freedom
of movement as defined by article 13 of the Universal Declaration of Human
rights:

Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the
borders of each State.
Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to
return to his country.
http://www.unhchr.ch/udhr/lang/eng.htm


For propaganda purposes Dan tries to limit the interpretation of freedom of
movement.
Cubans should have the right to freely travel from and to their country upon
presentation of their identity papers without the requirement of invitations
and exit and entry visa.


B. thousands of Cubans are stuck in Cuba as they do not receive the
permission to leave the country even though they hold valid entry visas for
another country:


a. María del Carmen Acosta Rivera and Enmanuel Rodríguez Acosta are unable
to leave Cuba since the migration authorities will not give them the
respective permission. They have had a visa to enter the United States since
February 23, 1996. It should also be noted that the permit to enter the
United States was issued under the Refugee Program (Case No. 15796), and
that Ernesto Rivero Gutiérrez, the husband of María del Carmen Acosta, has
been in the United States since May 1996.


b. Hilda Molina Morejón and her mother Hilda Morejón Serrantes had their
authorization to leave the country temporarily to visit her family, which
resides in Argentina, rejected. It should be noted that Hilda Molina Morejón
resigned her post as director of the International Center for Neurological
Restoration over ideological issues.


c. During the period covered by this report, Elio Borges Guzmán filed for
the 20,000-visa lottery that the United States offered for those wishing to
emigrate there, and was awarded a family visa. Despite this, Elio Borges,
who is an electronics engineer, with an undergraduate degree in economics,
and who worked with the Ministry of Communication, was denied permission to
leave the country. According to the information provided, the Director of
the Ministry, Carlos Martínez, called him to his office and called him a
"traitor", and threatened him, saying he would only leave the country "when
he [Martínez] felt like it." One month after having won the lottery he was
transferred, as punishment, to a postal office to work delivering telegrams
at a monthly salary of 110 Cuban pesos, i.e. one-third of what he had been
earning.


d. Hilda Maestre Hernández and Jean Luis Ramón Labrada, 71 and 19 years of
age respectively, were given visas to travel to the United States in
February 1995. In addition, the Chilean government gave them a tourist visa
on October 11, 1995, at the request of Mr. Iván Van de Wyngard, former
general manager of Entel-Chile, who invited them to visit his country. These
visas were removed from the Chilean consular offices in Havana on January
14, 1996. The Cuban authorities refuse to allow them to travel to Chile,
denying them the exit permit. They have no legal problems nor other problems
that should impede them from travelling. Moreover, both meet all the
requirements officially established by the Cuban migratory authorities. It
has been noted that the refusal of the Cuban authorities appears to be in
response to the fact that the parents of Ramón Labrada sought political
asylum in the United States in May 1994, and therefore cannot travel to
Chile or any other country.


see : http://www.fiu.edu/~fcf/OAS-Castillo/chapterv.cub.html


People even felt compelled to sign Castro’s “petition” out of fear of not
getting a carta blanca:


Cubanos suscriben modificación constitucional "para no señalarse"


"Mira, yo fui y firmé porque tengo miedo que después no me den la tarjeta
blanca (permiso de salida del país que otorga el Ministerio del
Interior)" -dijo una mujer que recientemente se ganó la lotería de visas
estadounidenses.
http://cubanet.org/CNews/y02/jun02/19a8.htm


Also see:


Elian and Elizabeth
http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20020122-748686.htm


Cuban doctor, nine others reach U.S. on a speedboat
``I had no other option,'' said David Cohen Valdés, 30. Arriving in Boca
Chica, near Key West, he was greeted by his brothers Isaac, 38, and José,
36, who left the island on a raft in August 1994.
``The Cuban government wouldn't allow me to leave -- neither with the U.S.
visa I got in 1995 nor the Dominican visa I got in 1997,'' David said.
http://www.miamiherald.com/content/today/news/dade/digdocs/107235.htm


Niegan permiso de salida temporal del país a bibliotecaria cubana
http://cubanet.org/bibliotecas/noticias/n_b05100201.htm


Los colores de la tarjeta


Manuel Vázquez Portal, Grupo Decoro


LA HABANA, septiembre - Viajar al extranjero, ya temporal o definitivamente,
en Cuba, no es una decisión personal. Hay que pedir permiso. El permiso lo
otorga el gobierno por medio de su Ministerio del Interior. Al permiso de
salida le llaman "tarjeta blanca". Pero la "tarjeta blanca" cambia de color
según el solicitante. Los hay quienes la adquieren de una albura impoluta.
Para otros se torna de una negrura sin fondo.
Aquellos que han tenido una actitud contraria al régimen pagan el precio de
que su "tarjeta blanca" se les convierta en su "tarjeta negra".
Mira : http://cubanet.org/CNews/y00/sep00/21a6.htm


This also leads to corruption as people desperately try to obtain the carta
blanca they need :


BAJO INVESTIGACIÓN FUNCIONARIOS DE INMIGRACIÓN POR VENTA DE PERMISOS DE
SALIDA DEL PAÍS 15/03/2002
http://208.153.137.87/scripts/open.cfm?id=3971


C: People that have left are not allowed to return to visit their relatives.


In August 1999, the government ordered that no Cuban who had
emigrated through illegal channels after September 1994 could ever return to
the island. Previously, those who left illegally were allowed to visit after
spending five years abroad.
See : http://www.hrw.org/wr2k/americas-04.htm


PL
Opinions, News & Views
2007-12-30 21:25:52 UTC
Permalink
"Barry Schier" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:f53bf25f-7385-440a-a4d5-***@l6g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
M[iami] H[erald]: Cubans drown in attempt to reach U.S.
CubaNews Message #38908 of 38909

These Cubans should be understood to be what they are: victims of U.S.
policy toward Cuba, specifically the Cuban Adjustment Act, which gives
special rights, special privileges and special advantages to Cubans
whose feet touch U.S. soil. This provides a massive financial
incentive
to smugglers who charge upwards of $10,000 per person to bring these
desperate people to the United States. But they don't always manage to
get to the United States and so who knows how many are killed through
tragedies like this?

Cubans who are caught by the U.S. Coast Guard before placing their
feet
on U.S. soil are taken back to Cuba by the United States where they
can
and must be terribly angry and frustrated and despairing, a force
which
might serve to destabilize Cuban society. That's why they ARE taken
back
to Cuba by the United States, which welcomes those who managed to get
TO the United States. What must the Coasties think of all this?

Meanwhile, would-be migrants from all other countries are immediately
imprisoned and deported. Repeal the Cuban Adjustment Act now!
Normalize
relations with Cuba and permit Cubans who want to come to the U.S. to
do so on the same basis as all immigrants who want to can also do.


Walter Lippmann
Havana, Cuba
Un paraiso bajo el bloqueo
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaNews/

=======================================================================
LEARN ABOUT THE CUBAN ADJUSTMENT ACT:
http://www.walterlippmann.com/migration.html
=======================================================================

MIAMI HERALD
CUBA
Cubans drown in attempt to reach U.S.
A boat suspected of trying to smuggle Cubans into the United States
overturned last week and at least 25 people are presumed dead.
Posted on Thu, Dec. 27, 2007

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/americas/story/357895.html

BY WILFREDO CANCIO ISLA
El Nuevo Herald

At least 25 Cubans are presumed dead after a failed attempt to get to
the


Part of the problem Cuba experiences is in how the US government harassed
and boycotted Cuba over the years.


United States by boat from the coastal town of Santa Cruz del Norte,
in
Havana province.

According to relatives of some of the victims, Cuban authorities
recovered
eight bodies and were still searching for 17 others still missing
Wednesday
night and presumed dead after their boat overturned last week. Other
unconfirmed reports said authorities had recovered 11 bodies.

One of the deceased was identified by a family member as Yosvanny Vera
Alvarez, 29, from Aguada de Pasajeros in Cienfuegos in central Cuba.
The
victim leaves behind a 9-year-old son.

According to Lázaro Vera Alvarez, who lives in Tampa, his brother's
body was
handed over to his mother on Saturday in Aguada de Pasajeros, where he
was
buried.

''State security turned up at my mother's house to deliver the body,''
Vera
Alvarez said in a telephone interview. ``He's already been buried.''

As of Wednesday evening, Cuban authorities had yet to report the
fatalities.

Interviews with Cubans familiar with the drownings offered different
versions of events.

Most of those interviewed by El Nuevo Herald indicated that the group
left
aboard a go-fast boat sometime between Thursday and Friday night with
28
passengers, including children. The motor boat had arrived in Cuba
from
Miami, those interviewed said.

The boat capsized shortly after its departure. The boat was being
chased by
the Cuban coast guard, those familiar with the incident said, and it
ended
up crashing into a reef.

A heated discussion among the passengers ensued, destabilizing the
boat and
causing passengers to be flung overboard.

''They told my mother that my brother was rescued after the accident
but
that he died of cardiac arrest when he was taken to the coast guard
boat,''
Lázaro Vera said.

``Everything's very strange, but there's evidence that the boat was
hit by
the Cuban coast guard.''

Vera Alvarez's mother, reached over the phone in Cuba by El Nuevo,
declined
to comment. ''I don't know anything. I am crushed,'' she said.

Vera Alvarez said his brother was a dissident and headed the
Independent
Union of Cuban Workers, a group considered illegal by the Cuban
government.

Other Cubans interviewed over the phone said that there are three
survivors,
among them a woman from Calimete in Matanzas province, east of Havana;
an
unidentified alleged smuggler, and a doctor named Sandy Carmona, from
Aguada
de Pasajeros. Carmona was taken to the state security at Villa Marista
in
Havana.

The deaths would be the second tragedy in less than a month involving
Cubans
at sea.

On Nov. 24, 20 Cubans -- including 12 children -- from the town of
Perico in
Matanzas, vanished after they left on a boat off the north coast. The
U.S.
Coast Guard declared the group lost at sea after a failed search in
the
Florida Straits.
M***@hotmail.com
2007-12-30 21:57:29 UTC
Permalink
On Dec 30, 3:25 pm, "Opinions, News & Views" ==========
Post by Barry Schier
MIAMI HERALD
CUBA
Cubans drown in attempt to reach U.S.
A boat suspected of trying to smuggle Cubans into the United States
overturned last week and at least 25 people are presumed dead.
Posted on Thu, Dec. 27, 2007
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/americas/story/357895.html
BY WILFREDO CANCIO ISLA
El Nuevo Herald
At least 25 Cubans are presumed dead after a failed attempt to get to
the
Part of the problem Cuba experiences is in how the US government harassed
and boycotted Cuba over the years.
Let's make sure that everybody knows that the last sentence represents
your opinion and it is not part of the article written by Mr. Cancio.

The real problem is that there is a totalitarian Communist regime in
Cuba. During 1960 and 1990 the USSR provided the Castro regime over
$120 billion of subsidies. Castro received 10 times more assistance
than all of western Europe received from the US after WWll. However,
2 million Cubans left the island. Why? People leave Cuba not because
of the US embargo. They leave because the embargo Castro has placed on
the Cuban people.There is no freedom in Cuba and even SUGAR is
rationed. Communism does not work. PERIOD. It has worked in the past.
It does not work today and it will not work in the future.

If you love the Cuban people help us get rid of this horrible regime
that has enslaved us.
Post by Barry Schier
United States by boat from the coastal town of Santa Cruz del Norte,
in
Havana province.
According to relatives of some of the victims, Cuban authorities
recovered
eight bodies and were still searching for 17 others still missing
Wednesday
night and presumed dead after their boat overturned last week. Other
unconfirmed reports said authorities had recovered 11 bodies.
One of the deceased was identified by a family member as Yosvanny Vera
Alvarez, 29, from Aguada de Pasajeros in Cienfuegos in central Cuba.
The
victim leaves behind a 9-year-old son.
According to Lázaro Vera Alvarez, who lives in Tampa, his brother's
body was
handed over to his mother on Saturday in Aguada de Pasajeros, where he
was
buried.
''State security turned up at my mother's house to deliver the body,''
Vera
Alvarez said in a telephone interview. ``He's already been buried.''
As of Wednesday evening, Cuban authorities had yet to report the
fatalities.
Interviews with Cubans familiar with the drownings offered different
versions of events.
Most of those interviewed by El Nuevo Herald indicated that the group
left
aboard a go-fast boat sometime between Thursday and Friday night with
28
passengers, including children. The motor boat had arrived in Cuba
from
Miami, those interviewed said.
The boat capsized shortly after its departure. The boat was being
chased by
the Cuban coast guard, those familiar with the incident said, and it
ended
up crashing into a reef.
A heated discussion among the passengers ensued, destabilizing the
boat and
causing passengers to be flung overboard.
''They told my mother that my brother was rescued after the accident
but
that he died of cardiac arrest when he was taken to the coast guard
boat,''
Lázaro Vera said.
``Everything's very strange, but there's evidence that the boat was
hit by
the Cuban coast guard.''
Vera Alvarez's mother, reached over the phone in Cuba by El Nuevo,
declined
to comment. ''I don't know anything. I am crushed,'' she said.
Vera Alvarez said his brother was a dissident and headed the
Independent
Union of Cuban Workers, a group considered illegal by the Cuban
government.
Other Cubans interviewed over the phone said that there are three
survivors,
among them a woman from Calimete in Matanzas province, east of Havana;
an
unidentified alleged smuggler, and a doctor named Sandy Carmona, from
Aguada
de Pasajeros. Carmona was taken to the state security at Villa Marista
in
Havana.
The deaths would be the second tragedy in less than a month involving
Cubans
at sea.
On Nov. 24, 20 Cubans -- including 12 children -- from the town of
Perico in
Matanzas, vanished after they left on a boat off the north coast. The
U.S.
Coast Guard declared the group lost at sea after a failed search in
the
Florida Straits.
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