Discussion:
FIDEL CASTRO: The Killing Machine
(demasiado antiguo para responder)
torresdD
2007-07-10 08:09:28 UTC
Permalink
http://www.counterpunch.org/castro07092007.html
July 9, 2007

Reflections from a Target of the CIA
The Killing Machine
By FIDEL CASTRO

It was announced that the CIA would
be declassifying hundreds of pages
on illegal actions that included
plans to eliminate the leaders
of foreign governments.

Suddenly the publication is
halted and it is delayed one day.

No coherent explanation was given.

Perhaps someone in the White
House looked over the material.

The first package of declassified
documents goes by the name of
"The Family Jewels";

it consists of 702 pages on illegal
CIA actions between 1959 and 1973.

About 100 pages of this part have been deleted.

It deals with actions that were
not authorized by any law,
plots to assassinate other leaders,
experiments with drugs on human
beings to control their minds,
spying on civil activists and
journalists,

among other similar activities
that were expressly prohibited.

The documents began to be gathered
together 14 years after the first
of the events took place,
when then CIA director,
James Schlessinger became
alarmed about what the
press was writing,

especially all the articles by
Robert Woodward and Carl Bernstein
published in The Washington Post,
already mentioned in the
"Manifesto to the People of Cuba".

The agency was being accused of
promoting spying in the Watergate
Hotel with the participation of
its former agents Howard Hunt
and James McCord.

In May 1973,
the Director of the CIA
was demanding that

"all the main operative officials
of this agency must immediately
inform me on any ongoing or past
activity that might be outside
of the constituting charter of
this agency".

Schlessinger,
later appointed Head of the Pentagon,
had been replaced by William Colby.

Colby was referring to the documents
as "skeletons hiding in a closet".

New press revelations forced Colby
to admit the existence of the
reports to interim President
Gerald Ford in 1975.

The New York Times was denouncing
agency penetration of antiwar groups.

The law that created the CIA
prevented it from spying
inside the United States.

That "was just the tip of the iceberg",
said then Secretary of State Henry Kissinger.

Kissinger himself warned that
"blood would flow" if other
actions were known,
and he immediately added:

"For example,
that Robert Kennedy personally
controlled the operation for
the assassination of Fidel Castro".

The President's brother was then
Attorney General of the United States.

He was later murdered as he was
running for President in the 1968
elections,

which facilitated Nixon's election
for lack of a strong candidate.

The most dramatic thing about
the case is that apparently he
had reached the conviction that
John Kennedy had been victim
of a conspiracy.

Thorough investigators,
after analyzing the wounds,
the caliber of the shots and
other circumstances surrounding
the death of the President,
reached the conclusion that
there had been at least
three shooters.

Solitary Oswald, used as an instrument,
could not have been the only shooter.

I found that rather striking.

Excuse me for saying this but
fate turned me into a shooting
instructor with a telescopic
sight for all the Granma
expeditionaries.
PL
2007-07-11 09:56:55 UTC
Permalink
The Castro regime is condemned world-wide as undemocratic. Most people are
aware of that.

Not as many seem to know that Genocide Watch (the Coordinator for the
International Campaign to End Genocide, founded in the Hague, Netherlands,
May 1999 - www.genocidewatch.org ) has put the Castro regime on it's list of
governments guilty of genocide.

NATION
Cuba
EPISODES
1945 -- 1959
1959 - present
DEATH TOLL
100's rebels
1,000's "counter - revolutionaries"
KILLERS
Rightist gov'ts
Castro gov't
DIVISIONS
Political
STAGE in 2005
4 - Organization

See: http://www.genocidewatch.org/aboutgenocide/genpolmmchart.htm

Genocide Watch holds the Castro regime responsible for the death of
thousands of people (executed and died trying to flee the regime). The
deaths are to be considered as deaths as the result of genocide as defined
by international treaties.

The estimates of Cubans killed range from 35,000 to 141,000 (1959-1987)
according to the site of R. J. Rummel. More estimates of death tolls are
listed below.

Cuba is also classified as being in the 4th stage of genocide:
"Organization" by Genocide Watch.

In Europe steps have been taken to indict Fidel Castro on genocide charges
in various countries:

1. Belgium
2. Spain

Prosecutions have not resulted in indictments as for now. Castro's status as
"head of state" protects him from prosecution at this point in time.

The data published by Genocide Watch has been confirmed by other sources and
can therefore be considered accurate.

For more data and links see:
http://www.cubaverdad.net/genocide.htm
Fred Williams
2007-07-11 11:09:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by PL
The Castro regime is condemned world-wide as undemocratic. Most people
are aware of that.
Not true.
Post by PL
Not as many seem to know that Genocide Watch (the Coordinator for the
International Campaign to End Genocide, founded in the Hague,
Netherlands, May 1999 - www.genocidewatch.org ) has put the Castro
regime on it's list of governments guilty of genocide.
The vast majority of people have no problems with Cuba at all. Other
nations, like my own country of Canada, continue to trade with Cuba and
invest in Cuba and have good relations with Cuba.
The only objections come from Washington or from nations or
organizations under Washington's control by subterfuge or intimidation.
The U.S. condemns nations not for human rights abuses, but it simply
condemns a nation when Washngton doesn't control it. Nations under
U.S. control are called "free" and "democratic" regarless of the U.S.
trained death squads and torture camps.
Cuba it a democratic nation and they are preaparing for their next
elections already.
--
Regards,
Fred
redflag
2007-07-11 12:29:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by PL
The Castro regime is condemned world-wide as undemocratic. Most people are
aware of that.
No, not "world-wide", just by the U.S. and
its satellites.

Interesting how the "genocidewatch" page
seems to be made up mostly of right-wingers.

Funny how they fail to even remark that the
U.S. is responsible for a genocidal war
against Vietnam, how it bombed that country
and inflicted more than one million civilian
casualties, how even today, hundreds still
die or are maimed by unexploded ordinance
left behind when the U.S. turned tail and
fled the scene of its horrendous crime.

"Genocidewatch" seems to have forgotten
the complicity of U.S. corporations such as
Union Carbide, Dupont and Monsanto in
preparing and delivering chemical weapons
used against the civilians such as Agent
Orage and Napalm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napalm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_Orange

Not far from Vietnam, at about the same time,
the U.S. was busy bombing Cambodia, a neutral
country in the conflict. When the then head
of state, Prince Sihanouk, complained he was
overthrown by a CIA-led coup that paved the
way for the Khemr Rouge. Close to a million
civilians died in Cambodia as a result of
the _secret_ bombing by the U.S. Countless
more died at the hands of Pol Pot, whom we
can safely say came to power thanks largely
to U.S. intervention there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodia#History

"Genocidewatch" seems to have taken a leave
of absence regarding El Salvador, Nicaragua,
Guatemala and Honduras. In Nicaragua, every year
during the Somoza regime, several hundred people
would "disappear" only to be found days later
dead, with signs of torture. After Somoza was
overthrown by a popular uprising the U.S., under
the Reagan administration, set up a CIA-led
terror campaign that included an unsurgency
dedicated to sabotage and terror directed at
the civilian population.

During most of the 20th century, the U.S.
installed or otherwise abetted genocidal
dictatorships througout the world, especially
in Latin America.
PL
2007-07-11 13:54:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by redflag
Post by PL
The Castro regime is condemned world-wide as undemocratic. Most people
are aware of that.
No, not "world-wide", just by the U.S. and
its satellites.
Nope.
The regime is widely condemned : International Organizations, countries,
NGO's, ...
Links to over 100 human rights reports for your information.
http://www.cubaverdad.net/links_to_human_rights_reports.htm
Post by redflag
Interesting how the "genocidewatch" page
seems to be made up mostly of right-wingers.
Cuba is on the page and rightly so.
For more info see:
http://www.cubaverdad.net/genocide.htm
Post by redflag
Funny how they fail to even remark that the
U.S. is responsible for a genocidal war
against Vietnam,
(snip)

the war is Vietnam was never considered as genocide.
Post by redflag
"Genocidewatch" seems to have taken a leave
of absence regarding El Salvador, Nicaragua,
Guatemala and Honduras.
(snip)
Nope.
At least have a look at the page:
http://www.genocidewatch.org/aboutgenocide/genpolmmchart.htm
But thanks for showing you didn't even look at the page before you started a
clearly dogmatical attack.

PL
redflag
2007-07-11 14:13:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by PL
Post by redflag
Funny how they fail to even remark that the
U.S. is responsible for a genocidal war
against Vietnam,
(snip)
the war is Vietnam was never considered as genocide.
Of course, not by the U.S. and its satellites.
I think it was Gen. Westmoreland who remarked:
"We'll bomb 'em back to the Stone Age."
Post by PL
Post by redflag
"Genocidewatch" seems to have taken a leave
of absence regarding El Salvador, Nicaragua,
Guatemala and Honduras.
(snip)
Nope.
http://www.genocidewatch.org/aboutgenocide/genpolmmchart.htm
But thanks for showing you didn't even look at the page before you started a
clearly dogmatical attack.
The first thing I did was examine the page. I
note that its president worked for the U.S.
State Department during the Clinton administration.
"Dime con quien andas y te dire quien eres".

The U.S. State Department is a responsible
party in the U.S. crimes I mentioned
before, including the overthrow of democratic
governments including those of Arbenz in Guatemala,
Gallegos in Venezuela, Bosch in Dominican Republic,
Allende in Chile, etc. etc.

The U.S. ruling class has no right to
talk about Fidel and Cuba's "human rights"
record until it owns up to its own crimes
against humanity.
PL
2007-07-11 14:57:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by redflag
Post by PL
Post by redflag
Funny how they fail to even remark that the
U.S. is responsible for a genocidal war
against Vietnam,
(snip)
the war is Vietnam was never considered as genocide.
Of course, not by the U.S. and its satellites.
(snip)
it seems that only the dogmatically anti US have declared it a "genocide"
For a genocide in that area I would suggest you look at what the communist
regime in Cambodia did.
Post by redflag
Post by PL
Post by redflag
"Genocidewatch" seems to have taken a leave
of absence regarding El Salvador, Nicaragua,
Guatemala and Honduras.
(snip)
Nope.
http://www.genocidewatch.org/aboutgenocide/genpolmmchart.htm
But thanks for showing you didn't even look at the page before you
started a clearly dogmatical attack.
The first thing I did was examine the page.
and the countries you mentioned were on.
What you seem to hate is that they don't blame the US for these atrocities.
You are stuck on this one obsession it seems.
Your problem
Post by redflag
I note that its president worked for the U.S.
State Department during the Clinton administration.
"Dime con quien andas y te dire quien eres".
Like the CIA agent that moved to Cuba.
Get a life.
It is clear that as you don't have any way to refute the fact you attack the
messenger.

(snip)
Post by redflag
The U.S. ruling class has no right to
talk about Fidel and Cuba's "human rights"
record until it owns up to its own crimes
against humanity.
A moronic point ov view or a ploy to stop criticism of CAstro.
Whatever the US, the Soviet Union, Videla, Pinochet did in the past does not
give Castro a license to violate human rights.
It also does not remove the right from anyone to denounce those that violate
human right.
Cuba has been condemned by hundreds of organizations, countries, NGO's, ...
from Guatmalan trade Uinions over HRW to the European parliament.
That is reality.
Castro is a human rights abuser and his acts of democide and politicide
warrant his inclusion on Genocide Watch's list.
See:
Links to over 100 human rights reports for your information.
http://www.cubaverdad.net/links_to_human_rights_reports.htm
On his acts of democide and politicide:
http://www.cubaverdad.net/13_de_marzo.htm
http://www.cubaverdad.net/genocide.htm
More:
www.cubaverdad.net

.
redflag
2007-07-11 15:41:47 UTC
Permalink
PL wrote:
[...]
Post by PL
(snip)
it seems that only the dogmatically anti US have declared it a "genocide"
For a genocide in that area I would suggest you look at what the communist
regime in Cambodia did.
The fault of the genocide in Cambodia can
be laid squarely on the U.S: I was they
who secretly bombed that country, killing
amost a million people, it was they
who engineered a coup that removed Prince
Sihanuk for denouncing that atrocity, it
was they who created a power vaccuum that
led to the rise of the Khemr Rouge.

Of course Pol Pot was a homicidal maniac and
the Khmer were a bunch of murderous thugs!
But to judge them without taking into account
U.S. involvement is like attempting to
write a history of WWII without ever once
mentioning Adolph Hitler or the Nazis.

It was the U.S. that created the conditions
that made that holocaust possible.
Post by PL
Post by redflag
Post by PL
Post by redflag
"Genocidewatch" seems to have taken a leave
of absence regarding El Salvador, Nicaragua,
Guatemala and Honduras.
(snip)
Nope.
http://www.genocidewatch.org/aboutgenocide/genpolmmchart.htm
But thanks for showing you didn't even look at the page before you
started a clearly dogmatical attack.
The first thing I did was examine the page.
and the countries you mentioned were on.
What you seem to hate is that they don't blame the US for these atrocities.
You are stuck on this one obsession it seems.
Your problem
Yes but nothing about the Contra war and
how the CIA created an army of mercenaries and
assasins to destabilze Nicaragua.
Post by PL
Post by redflag
I note that its president worked for the U.S.
State Department during the Clinton administration.
"Dime con quien andas y te dire quien eres".
Like the CIA agent that moved to Cuba.
Get a life.
It is clear that as you don't have any way to refute the fact you attack the
messenger.
Philip Agee, the former CIA agent came clean about
his activities and those of the CIA. Yes, he lives
in Cuba. So what?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Agee

By the way, I'm not attacking the president of
genocidewatch.com. I simply point out the fact
that his web site concentrates on criticizing
governments who happen to be on the U.S. State
Department's list of "rogue nations" and that
he himself is a former employee of that criminal
organization.
Post by PL
Post by redflag
The U.S. ruling class has no right to
talk about Fidel and Cuba's "human rights"
record until it owns up to its own crimes
against humanity.
A moronic point ov view or a ploy to stop criticism of CAstro.
I admit that it is intended to stop certain criticism
of Fidel Castro and Cuba. And why? Because the sort
of "criticism" that comes from the U.S. ruling class
(via you and other sepoys in this NG) is intended to
prop up the false notion that the U.S. is a defender
of human rights and a promoter of democracy throughout
the world when in fact the opposite is true: The U.S.
government, despite its claims to the contrary, is the
biggest violator of human rights and the greatest enemy
of democracy anywhere in the world.
Post by PL
Whatever the US, the Soviet Union, Videla, Pinochet did in the past does not
give Castro a license to violate human rights.
True. But that's not what I'm claiming. I'm
pointing out to you that it is hypocritical to
focus on Cuba's supposed human rights violations
using data, using claims, and using arguments that
are generated by U.S. ruling class sources. And that
is what you are doing.
Post by PL
It also does not remove the right from anyone to denounce those that violate
human right.
True. But first you must be standing on
moral high ground. And, in this case, it
is obvious you are not.
Post by PL
Cuba has been condemned by hundreds of organizations, countries, NGO's, ...
from Guatmalan trade Uinions over HRW to the European parliament.
That is reality.
I'm not denying it. But none of them have
the moral high ground, especially when most
are loud about their condemnation of Cuba
and practically silent about the crimes that
the U.S. commits world-wide on a daily basis.
Post by PL
Castro is a human rights abuser and his acts of democide and politicide
warrant his inclusion on Genocide Watch's list.
Put him on any list you want; History will absolve him.
PL
2007-07-11 16:10:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by redflag
[...]
Post by PL
(snip)
it seems that only the dogmatically anti US have declared it a "genocide"
For a genocide in that area I would suggest you look at what the
communist regime in Cambodia did.
The fault of the genocide in Cambodia can
be laid squarely on the U.S
(snip)

and the destruction of the Aztec society as wel I guess.
Get real.
You are so blind.
Post by redflag
Of course Pol Pot was a homicidal maniac and
the Khmer were a bunch of murderous thugs!
But to judge them without taking into account
U.S. involvement is like attempting to
write a history of WWII without ever once
mentioning Adolph Hitler or the Nazis.
Nope.
Because in this history Pol Pot is the Hitler and the leader of the NAzis.
The crimes of the extreme communists regime were not provoked or supported
by the US.
They happened AFTER the end of the war when there was no more opposition to
the Khmer Rouge.
Their "full control" ensured the crimes.
Post by redflag
It was the U.S. that created the conditions
that made that holocaust possible.
you mean by retreating and not ensuring the Khmer Rouge couldn't come to
absolute power?
That may be a valid point.
Post by redflag
Post by PL
Post by redflag
Post by PL
Post by redflag
"Genocidewatch" seems to have taken a leave
of absence regarding El Salvador, Nicaragua,
Guatemala and Honduras.
(snip)
Nope.
http://www.genocidewatch.org/aboutgenocide/genpolmmchart.htm
But thanks for showing you didn't even look at the page before you
started a clearly dogmatical attack.
The first thing I did was examine the page.
and the countries you mentioned were on.
What you seem to hate is that they don't blame the US for these atrocities.
You are stuck on this one obsession it seems.
Your problem
Yes but nothing about the Contra war
(snip)

Yep.
You don't seem to get the essence of the lists: it lists governments that
are guilty of acts of genocide.
Both sides in the Nicaraguan conflict are clearly condemned each in turn
when they took power
Post by redflag
Post by PL
Post by redflag
I note that its president worked for the U.S.
State Department during the Clinton administration.
"Dime con quien andas y te dire quien eres".
Like the CIA agent that moved to Cuba.
Get a life.
It is clear that as you don't have any way to refute the fact you attack
the messenger.
Philip Agee, the former CIA agent came clean about
his activities
(snip)

Nope.
He ran from prosecution and now serves the Castro propaganda in exchange for
shelter like lots of other US criminals.
Post by redflag
By the way, I'm not attacking the president of
genocidewatch.com. I simply point out the fact
that his web site concentrates on criticizing
governments who happen to be on the U.S. State
Department's list of "rogue nations" and that
he himself is a former employee of that criminal
organization.
Your "pointing out" is erroneous.
There is no biass at all.
The govenments that have misbehaved in the past that were supported are also
critisized (see Guatemala, Nicaragua, Chile, Argentina, ...)
Post by redflag
Post by PL
Post by redflag
The U.S. ruling class has no right to
talk about Fidel and Cuba's "human rights"
record until it owns up to its own crimes
against humanity.
A moronic point ov view or a ploy to stop criticism of CAstro.
I admit that it is intended to stop certain criticism
of Fidel Castro and Cuba. And why? Because the sort
of "criticism" that comes from the U.S. ruling class
Nope.
It comes from the whole world.
Stop being so purpousely ethnocentric.
It is clear you want to present this as a "dualist" issue between the US and
the CAstro regime.
It isn't. It is about the universal values and the universal right of
respect of human rights.
Therfore lots of international organizations, ... have condemned the Cuban
regime independently of any US influence.
Some of these organizations have been equally critical of the US.
Post by redflag
(via you and other sepoys in this NG)
(snip)

Get a life.
You are a broken dogmatic record
Post by redflag
Post by PL
Whatever the US, the Soviet Union, Videla, Pinochet did in the past does
not give Castro a license to violate human rights.
True. But that's not what I'm claiming. I'm
pointing out to you that it is hypocritical to
focus on Cuba's supposed human rights violations
using data, using claims, and using arguments that
are generated by U.S. ruling class sources. And that
is what you are doing.
The facts are reported by lots of sources both Cuban and international.
They include dissidents, foreign (non-us) dissidents, tourists and Cuban
government sources.
As such your comment again show your dogmatic biass, no more, no less.
Deal with reality for a change
Post by redflag
Post by PL
It also does not remove the right from anyone to denounce those that
violate human right.
True. But first you must be standing on
moral high ground.
Nope.
I agree that anyone that criticizes human rights abuses should be open for
criticism himself. But that is where it ends.
One doesn't need to be perfect before one can denounce the abuses.
HRW, Amnesty, RSF, ... none are guilty of human rights violations and they
are perfectly entitled to denounce the abuses.
Imperfect democracies are still on higher moral ground that dictatorships.
Post by redflag
Post by PL
Cuba has been condemned by hundreds of organizations, countries, NGO's,
... from Guatmalan trade Uinions over HRW to the European parliament.
That is reality.
I'm not denying it. But none of them have
the moral high ground,
Get real.
You are now claiming that a CAstro dictatorship that is guilty of the
killing of thousands of people is on a "higher moral ground" than HRW,
AMnesty, The European parliament, ....
Again you show your irrational dogmatic biass.
Post by redflag
especially when most
are loud about their condemnation of Cuba
and practically silent about the crimes that
the U.S. commits world-wide on a daily basis.
false in all of the cases cited above.
Post by redflag
Post by PL
Castro is a human rights abuser and his acts of democide and politicide
warrant his inclusion on Genocide Watch's list.
Put him on any list you want; History will absolve him.
Nope, it won't.
It will condemn him. It already has.

PL
Dan Christensen
2007-07-13 03:57:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by PL
The Castro regime is condemned world-wide as undemocratic. Most people are
aware of that.
Not as many seem to know that Genocide Watch (the Coordinator for the
International Campaign to End Genocide, founded in the Hague, Netherlands,
May 1999 -www.genocidewatch.org) has put the Castro regime on it's list of
governments guilty of genocide.
Did you forget about GW's recent climb-down in this regard, Mr.
Lobbyist? A major setback for all you embargo-Nazis, wasn't it?

Some time ago, I wrote to GW president, Gregory Stanton, pointing out
to him that no mainstream human rights group like Amnesty
International or Human Rights Watch will support the outrageous claims
at his website of some 75,000 deaths in Cuba. He could not explain
this, and simply referred me to their only source on Cuba -- a book by
US-based academic, Rudy Rummell. Apparently GW has never actually
investigated anything at all to do with Cuba! There isn't a single
article devoted to Cuba at their website -- only a large table listing
dozens of countries, perhaps for the purpose of impressing potential
donors, with a one-liner about Cuba.

Anyway, some time late in 2005, they withdrew their outrageous claim,
their credibility on this issue in tatters. I won't claim
responsibility, but now they wisely decline to give any specific
figure at all -- progress of a sort, I guess.

Similarly the same year, the London-based International Centre for
Prison Studies, year also backed down on their outrageous claims about
Cuba. Now, they list the USA as having the highest incarceration rate
in the world, with Cuba a distant 8th. Must be frustrating as hell,
eh, Mr. Lobbyist?

Here is what HRW, as long ago as 1989, had to say about the
exaggerated claims of your political masters in Miami and Washington:

"...[T]he Commission's initial decision to review human rights in Cuba
was due in large part to exaggerated U.S. charges of ongoing political
executions, disappearances and torture... [T]he U.N. delegation to
Cuba found no evidence to support those allegations."
http://www.hrw.org/reports/1989/WR89/Cuba.htm

So, it appears that the only genocide here, is in fact your beloved
embargo! Makes you proud, don't it, Mr. Lobbyist -- your very own
Final Solution!

See featured article, "Is the US embargo a form of genocide?" at my
website.

Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at
http://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
PL
2007-07-14 11:38:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
The Castro regime is condemned world-wide as undemocratic. Most people are
aware of that.
Not as many seem to know that Genocide Watch (the Coordinator for the
International Campaign to End Genocide, founded in the Hague,
Netherlands,
May 1999 -www.genocidewatch.org) has put the Castro regime on it's list of
governments guilty of genocide.
Did you forget about GW's recent climb-down in this regard, Mr.
Lobbyist?
no climbdown comrade Dan.
Castro is still in the list.
See the link at: http://www.cubaverdad.net/genocide.htm
Post by Dan Christensen
A major setback for all you embargo-Nazis, wasn't it?
You are the only one with a "nazi" attitude Dan Christensen:

You support a regime that:
- is on the list of genocide Watch:
http://www.cubaverdad.net/genocide.htm
- does not allow freedom of speech - like the Nazi regime
http://www.cubaverdad.net/freedom_of_speech.htm
- imprisons opponents (even having it's own concentration camps in the past:
the UMAP) - like the Nazi regime
http://www.cubaverdad.net/dissidents.htm
http://www.cubaverdad.net/independent_journalists_in_cuba.htm
more about the UMAP:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/msearch?query=UMAP&submit=Search&charset=UTF-8
- tortures opponents:
http://www.cubaverdad.net/torture_in_cuba.htm
- violates human rights - like the Nazi regime
http://www.cubaverdad.net/universal_declaration_of_human_rights.htm
- persecuted gays until very recently - like the Nazi regime
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/msearch?query=%22gay%22+OR+%22homo%22&submit=Search&charset=UTF-8
- burns books - like the Nazi regime
- uses harsh repression against its people and has a sophisticated system of
social control - like the Nazi regime
http://www.cubaverdad.net/totalitarian_system.htm
...
and of course there are your own words that show you attitude:
Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well worth
fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures. In this
case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.....
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At this
time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to send death
squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and Colombia. Again, the
actions of the Cuban government in detaining these so-called dissidents seem
quite mild in comparison and are morally justified under the circumstances."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

Unquote
Post by Dan Christensen
Some time ago, I wrote to GW president, Gregory Stanton, pointing
out(snip)That lie has been exposed over and over again comrade Dan.
YOUR LIE about Genocide Watch.

You falsely claimed the organization had copied (mindlessly) a number from a
book
by Rummel. Another case of "private information".
Upon verification it became clear that Rummel quoted a figure of 73,000
deaths attributable to the Castro regime.
Genocide Watch showed a figure of 75,000 which comrade Dan promptly
attributed to "sloppiness" in copying.

Your private lies can't refute the public record.
You tried this one on a couple of times and always failed.

Do you deny you got the numbers wrong in your lie and that the
"exclusive" source you falsely claimed was used by Genocide Watch (another
"private" message) actually
gave a LOWER figure than Genocide Watch.

" I have clearly shown that your claim that Mr. Rummel is the one and only
source Genocide Watch uses is false by proving that Mr. Rummel (whose
credibility you attack without proof) gives a different figures than
Genocide Watch (73,000 versus 75,0000). Genocide Watch correctly lists
Castro as a genocidal dictator because of his responsibility for the death
of over 75,000 people. "

When confronted with your lie you turned insult in to injury by claiming the
"made an error in copying", didn't you?

Dan's lie:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/ff0ab4c53757e8a0?dmode=source&hl=en

My exposure of his lie:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/a44230458e76b3c7?dmode=source&hl=en

Dan's pathetic claim Genocide Watch made a mistake:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/8eeb4ad61f1463d4?dmode=source&hl=en

Again the standard reply to your "lobbyist" lie Mr. Cyber-liar:

Quote me comrade Dan. You claimed you can and you never did.
We both know you can't.

Try something like this:

Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures.
In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.......
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to
send death squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and
Colombia. Again, the actions of the Cuban government in detaining these
so-called dissidents seem quite mild in comparison and are morally
justified under the circumstances."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

Unquote.

You lie about me as you lied about Wayne Smith, Amnesty
International,
Genocide Watch, ..........

Still waiting for the "Geneva" proof comrade Dan.
That "episode" clearly exposes your lies.

As I said comrade Dan.
Every time you post that lie about me I post the truth about you.

Remember the lie about "lobbying in Geneva" while I actually was on
vacation in Cuba (as the source IP address of my posts in SCC at that
time prove).
This was your false claim:
"Taking a little break from arm-twisting in Geneva, Mr. Lobbyist?"
Link:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/b6375f9783e47aee?q=g:thl174670614d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8

Your inability to substantiate any of it is the best proof of your lies.

Nothing more than another example of your lies and misquotes like the
ones below:

YOUR LIE about Wayne Smith
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=source&hl=en

HIS own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith said
during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the United States:
Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.

Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

YOUR LIE about Amnesty International.
Another example of the same lie: putting words in people's mouth.

Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
that:

"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html

Link to the "report": (the one you didn't give until I shamed you in to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

They aren't calling for an "immediate and unconditional" end to the
trade sanctions in that report, are they?
Do you deny you snipped the words "immediate and unconditional" from
these sentences in the report (THE ONLY PLACES WHERE THEY ARE USED):

"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional
release."

In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.


" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."

and added to those snippets your own words to create this sentence on
your lying website:

" Amnesty International has explicitly denounced the US embargo on Cuba
in humanitarian terms, and made clear its support for the immediate and
unconditional lifting of these cruel sanctions"

that sentence:
1. isn't in the report
2. isn't supported by the tenure and the conclusions of the report

You snipped two three words used by Amnesty to condemn the Castro
regime and abused them in a sentence to imply support for your cause: a
BLATANT LIE.

What the report actually recommends about the "embargo" is:

"Amnesty International calls on the United States government
- to immediately suspend decisions on any measures that could toughen
the embargo.
- to review its foreign and economic policy towards Cuba, with an aim
towards ending this damaging practice.
- to place enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns in developing new policy towards Cuba."

Clearly no immediate and unconditional end is demanded as Dan claims.
The request is for not stiffening the sanctions and to review a policy
that places "enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns".

See:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

Lies and more lies from comrade Dan Christensen, the resident Canadian
Stalinist propagandist of SCC.

PL
Dan Christensen
2007-07-16 04:19:15 UTC
Permalink
On Jul 14, 7:38 am, "PL" <***@pandora.be> wrote:

[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Not as many seem to know that Genocide Watch (the Coordinator for the
International Campaign to End Genocide, founded in the Hague, Netherlands,
May 1999 -www.genocidewatch.org) has put the Castro regime on it's list of
governments guilty of genocide.
Did you forget about GW's recent climb-down in this regard, Mr.
Lobbyist?
no climbdown comrade Dan.
Castro is still in the list.
GW has completely lost its credibility on this matter. They were
somehow forced to remove their previous outrageous claim for a lack of
proof, as you yourself have comfirmed here. (Mainstream groups like AI
and HRW simply did support them.) Now, they post no specific number at
all. And still no proof of even their current thoroughly ambiguous
claim, and still not even a single article about Cuba!

Again, it seems we left with the fact that the only genocide here is
in fact your beloved embargo!

See featured article, "Is the US embargo a form of genocide?" at my
website.
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
A major setback for all you embargo-Nazis, wasn't it?
[snip]

You are the one who supports murder, torture and genocide -- whatever
it takes to advance the interests of your political masters, right,
Mr. Lobbyist? You have repeatedly refused to comment on the murder and
torture of their opponents in secret jails around the world, as
documented my Amnesty International. And you have repeatedly refused
to comment on the fact that AI has recently reiterated their
condemnation of your beloved embargo on humanitarian grounds, and
their call for it to be lifted. (See "Question for PL on this beloved
embargo.")

One can just image the reign on terror you would unleash on on the
Cuban people if you ever got the chance again! Whatever it takes,
right, Nazi boy?

Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at
http://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
M***@hotmail.com
2007-07-16 05:07:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Not as many seem to know that Genocide Watch (the Coordinator for the
International Campaign to End Genocide, founded in the Hague, Netherlands,
May 1999 -www.genocidewatch.org) has put the Castro regime on it's list of
governments guilty of genocide.
Did you forget about GW's recent climb-down in this regard, Mr.
Lobbyist?
no climbdown comrade Dan.
Castro is still in the list.
GW has completely lost its credibility on this matter. They were
somehow forced to remove their previous outrageous claim for a lack of
proof, as you yourself have comfirmed here. (Mainstream groups like AI
and HRW simply did support them.) Now, they post no specific number at
all. And still no proof of even their current thoroughly ambiguous
claim, and still not even a single article about Cuba!
Again, it seems we left with the fact that the only genocide here is
in fact your beloved embargo!
See featured article, "Is the US embargo a form of genocide?" at my
website.
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
A major setback for all you embargo-Nazis, wasn't it?
[snip]
You are the one who supports murder, torture and genocide -- whatever
it takes to advance the interests of your political masters, right,
Mr. Lobbyist? You have repeatedly refused to comment on the murder and
torture of their opponents in secret jails around the world, as
documented my Amnesty International. And you have repeatedly refused
to comment on the fact that AI has recently reiterated their
condemnation of your beloved embargo on humanitarian grounds, and
their call for it to be lifted. (See "Question for PL on this beloved
embargo.")
One can just image the reign on terror you would unleash on on the
Cuban people if you ever got the chance again! Whatever it takes,
right, Nazi boy?
Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website athttp://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
Nazi Dan stop lying and stop supporting a tyrant like Castro
Dan Christensen
2007-07-17 03:18:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by Dan Christensen
[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Not as many seem to know that Genocide Watch (the Coordinator for the
International Campaign to End Genocide, founded in the Hague, Netherlands,
May 1999 -www.genocidewatch.org) has put the Castro regime on it's list of
governments guilty of genocide.
Did you forget about GW's recent climb-down in this regard, Mr.
Lobbyist?
no climbdown comrade Dan.
Castro is still in the list.
GW has completely lost its credibility on this matter. They were
somehow forced to remove their previous outrageous claim for a lack of
proof, as you yourself have comfirmed here. (Mainstream groups like AI
and HRW simply did support them.) Now, they post no specific number at
all. And still no proof of even their current thoroughly ambiguous
claim, and still not even a single article about Cuba!
Again, it seems we left with the fact that the only genocide here is
in fact your beloved embargo!
See featured article, "Is the US embargo a form of genocide?" at my
website.
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
A major setback for all you embargo-Nazis, wasn't it?
[snip]
You are the one who supports murder, torture and genocide -- whatever
it takes to advance the interests of your political masters, right,
Mr. Lobbyist? You have repeatedly refused to comment on the murder and
torture of their opponents in secret jails around the world, as
documented my Amnesty International. And you have repeatedly refused
to comment on the fact that AI has recently reiterated their
condemnation of your beloved embargo on humanitarian grounds, and
their call for it to be lifted. (See "Question for PL on this beloved
embargo.")
One can just image the reign on terror you would unleash on on the
Cuban people if you ever got the chance again! Whatever it takes,
right, Nazi boy?
Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website athttp://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
Nazi Dan stop lying and stop supporting a tyrant like Castro
Hey, oSScar -- you old Nazi! Welcome back. I hope you are feeling
better.

I see, however, that you have still learned nothing in all your time
away. That is really too bad, for you are absolutely that the last
person who should be goose-stepping around here calling others
"Nazis!" It is you, after all, who supports these cruel sanctions
against the Cuban people, sanctions that even Amnesty International
must concede are "used to harm the most vulnerable members of [Cuban]
society." How DO you live with yourself? I guess, like most Nazis, you
are still in denial.

To get you back up to speed again, may I suggest reading featured
article, "Is the US embargo a form of genocide?" at my website? The
section, "Cuba Under Siege" couldn't hurt either.

Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at
http://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
PL
2007-07-17 15:02:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by Dan Christensen
[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Not as many seem to know that Genocide Watch (the Coordinator for the
International Campaign to End Genocide, founded in the Hague, Netherlands,
May 1999 -www.genocidewatch.org) has put the Castro regime on it's
list
of
governments guilty of genocide.
Did you forget about GW's recent climb-down in this regard, Mr.
Lobbyist?
no climbdown comrade Dan.
Castro is still in the list.
GW has completely lost its credibility on this matter. They were
somehow forced to remove their previous outrageous claim for a lack of
proof, as you yourself have comfirmed here. (Mainstream groups like AI
and HRW simply did support them.) Now, they post no specific number at
all. And still no proof of even their current thoroughly ambiguous
claim, and still not even a single article about Cuba!
Again, it seems we left with the fact that the only genocide here is
in fact your beloved embargo!
See featured article, "Is the US embargo a form of genocide?" at my
website.
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
A major setback for all you embargo-Nazis, wasn't it?
[snip]
You are the one who supports murder, torture and genocide -- whatever
it takes to advance the interests of your political masters, right,
Mr. Lobbyist? You have repeatedly refused to comment on the murder and
torture of their opponents in secret jails around the world, as
documented my Amnesty International. And you have repeatedly refused
to comment on the fact that AI has recently reiterated their
condemnation of your beloved embargo on humanitarian grounds, and
their call for it to be lifted. (See "Question for PL on this beloved
embargo.")
One can just image the reign on terror you would unleash on on the
Cuban people if you ever got the chance again! Whatever it takes,
right, Nazi boy?
Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website
athttp://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
Nazi Dan stop lying and stop supporting a tyrant like Castro
Hey, oSScar -- you old Nazi!
Stop insulting the dead.
You are such a piece of trash.
Oscar died on January 6 2007
See:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/cbac03d3c3588179?hl=en&

You are the only one with Nazi attitudes:

You support a regime that:
- is on the list of genocide Watch:
http://www.cubaverdad.net/genocide.htm
- does not allow freedom of speech - like the Nazi regime
http://www.cubaverdad.net/freedom_of_speech.htm
- imprisons opponents (even having it's own concentration camps in the past:
the UMAP) - like the Nazi regime
http://www.cubaverdad.net/dissidents.htm
http://www.cubaverdad.net/independent_journalists_in_cuba.htm
more about the UMAP:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/msearch?query=UMAP&submit=Search&charset=UTF-8
- tortures opponents:
http://www.cubaverdad.net/torture_in_cuba.htm
- violates human rights - like the Nazi regime
http://www.cubaverdad.net/universal_declaration_of_human_rights.htm
- persecuted gays until very recently - like the Nazi regime
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/msearch?query=%22gay%22+OR+%22homo%22&submit=Search&charset=UTF-8
- burns books - like the Nazi regime
- uses harsh repression against its people and has a sophisticated system of
social control - like the Nazi regime
http://www.cubaverdad.net/totalitarian_system.htm
...
and of course there are your own words that show you attitude:
Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well worth
fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures. In this
case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.....
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At this
time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to send death
squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and Colombia. Again, the
actions of the Cuban government in detaining these so-called dissidents seem
quite mild in comparison and are morally justified under the circumstances."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

PL
Dan Christensen
2007-07-19 03:39:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by Dan Christensen
[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Not as many seem to know that Genocide Watch (the Coordinator for the
International Campaign to End Genocide, founded in the Hague,
Netherlands,
May 1999 -www.genocidewatch.org) has put the Castro regime on it's
list
of
governments guilty of genocide.
Did you forget about GW's recent climb-down in this regard, Mr.
Lobbyist?
no climbdown comrade Dan.
Castro is still in the list.
GW has completely lost its credibility on this matter. They were
somehow forced to remove their previous outrageous claim for a lack of
proof, as you yourself have comfirmed here. (Mainstream groups like AI
and HRW simply did support them.) Now, they post no specific number at
all. And still no proof of even their current thoroughly ambiguous
claim, and still not even a single article about Cuba!
Again, it seems we left with the fact that the only genocide here is
in fact your beloved embargo!
See featured article, "Is the US embargo a form of genocide?" at my
website.
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
A major setback for all you embargo-Nazis, wasn't it?
[snip]
You are the one who supports murder, torture and genocide -- whatever
it takes to advance the interests of your political masters, right,
Mr. Lobbyist? You have repeatedly refused to comment on the murder and
torture of their opponents in secret jails around the world, as
documented my Amnesty International. And you have repeatedly refused
to comment on the fact that AI has recently reiterated their
condemnation of your beloved embargo on humanitarian grounds, and
their call for it to be lifted. (See "Question for PL on this beloved
embargo.")
One can just image the reign on terror you would unleash on on the
Cuban people if you ever got the chance again! Whatever it takes,
right, Nazi boy?
Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website
athttp://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
Nazi Dan stop lying and stop supporting a tyrant like Castro
Hey, oSScar -- you old Nazi!
Stop insulting the dead.
Oscar died on January 6 2007
Sorry, I didn't know. I will miss him.
Post by PL
See:http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/cbac03d3c3588179?...
Well, if you insist...

On the contrary, you are the one who supports murder, torture and
genocide -- whatever it takes to advance the interests of your
political masters, right, Mr. Lobbyist? You have repeatedly refused to
comment on the murder and torture of their opponents in secret jails
around the world, as documented my Amnesty International. And you have
repeatedly refused to comment on the fact that AI has recently
reiterated their condemnation of your beloved embargo on humanitarian
grounds, and their call for it to be lifted. (See "Question for PL on
this beloved embargo.") Makes you proud, don't it, Nazi boy -- your
very own Final Solution! One can just image the reign on terror you
would unleash on on the Cuban people if you ever got the chance
again!

Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at
http://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
PL
2007-07-19 14:07:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by M***@hotmail.com
Post by Dan Christensen
[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Not as many seem to know that Genocide Watch (the Coordinator
for
the
International Campaign to End Genocide, founded in the Hague,
Netherlands,
May 1999 -www.genocidewatch.org) has put the Castro regime on it's
list
of
governments guilty of genocide.
Did you forget about GW's recent climb-down in this regard, Mr.
Lobbyist?
no climbdown comrade Dan.
Castro is still in the list.
GW has completely lost its credibility on this matter. They were
somehow forced to remove their previous outrageous claim for a lack of
proof, as you yourself have comfirmed here. (Mainstream groups like AI
and HRW simply did support them.) Now, they post no specific number at
all. And still no proof of even their current thoroughly ambiguous
claim, and still not even a single article about Cuba!
Again, it seems we left with the fact that the only genocide here is
in fact your beloved embargo!
See featured article, "Is the US embargo a form of genocide?" at my
website.
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
A major setback for all you embargo-Nazis, wasn't it?
[snip]
You are the one who supports murder, torture and genocide -- whatever
it takes to advance the interests of your political masters, right,
Mr. Lobbyist? You have repeatedly refused to comment on the murder and
torture of their opponents in secret jails around the world, as
documented my Amnesty International. And you have repeatedly refused
to comment on the fact that AI has recently reiterated their
condemnation of your beloved embargo on humanitarian grounds, and
their call for it to be lifted. (See "Question for PL on this beloved
embargo.")
One can just image the reign on terror you would unleash on on the
Cuban people if you ever got the chance again! Whatever it takes,
right, Nazi boy?
Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website
athttp://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
Nazi Dan stop lying and stop supporting a tyrant like Castro
Hey, oSScar -- you old Nazi!
Stop insulting the dead.
Oscar died on January 6 2007
Sorry, I didn't know. I will miss him.
Post by PL
See:http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/cbac03d3c3588179?...
Well, if you insist...
On the contrary, you are the one who supports murder, torture and
genocide
(snip)

No I don't and you can't quote me on any of it.

Again the standard reply to your "lobbyist" lie Mr. Cyber-liar:

Quote me comrade Dan. You claimed you can and you never did.
We both know you can't.

Try something like this:

Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures.
In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.......
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to
send death squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and
Colombia. Again, the actions of the Cuban government in detaining these
so-called dissidents seem quite mild in comparison and are morally
justified under the circumstances."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

Unquote.

You lie about me as you lied about Wayne Smith, Amnesty
International,
Genocide Watch, ..........

Still waiting for the "Geneva" proof comrade Dan.
That "episode" clearly exposes your lies.

As I said comrade Dan.
Every time you post that lie about me I post the truth about you.

Remember the lie about "lobbying in Geneva" while I actually was on
vacation in Cuba (as the source IP address of my posts in SCC at that
time prove).
This was your false claim:
"Taking a little break from arm-twisting in Geneva, Mr. Lobbyist?"
Link:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/b6375f9783e47aee?q=g:thl174670614d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8

Your inability to substantiate any of it is the best proof of your lies.

Nothing more than another example of your lies and misquotes like the
ones below:

YOUR LIE about Wayne Smith
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=source&hl=en

HIS own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith said
during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the United States:
Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.

Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

YOUR LIE about Amnesty International.
Another example of the same lie: putting words in people's mouth.

Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
that:

"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html

Link to the "report": (the one you didn't give until I shamed you in to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

They aren't calling for an "immediate and unconditional" end to the
trade sanctions in that report, are they?
Do you deny you snipped the words "immediate and unconditional" from
these sentences in the report (THE ONLY PLACES WHERE THEY ARE USED):

"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional
release."

In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.


" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."

and added to those snippets your own words to create this sentence on
your lying website:

" Amnesty International has explicitly denounced the US embargo on Cuba
in humanitarian terms, and made clear its support for the immediate and
unconditional lifting of these cruel sanctions"

that sentence:
1. isn't in the report
2. isn't supported by the tenure and the conclusions of the report

You snipped two three words used by Amnesty to condemn the Castro
regime and abused them in a sentence to imply support for your cause: a
BLATANT LIE.

What the report actually recommends about the "embargo" is:

"Amnesty International calls on the United States government
- to immediately suspend decisions on any measures that could toughen
the embargo.
- to review its foreign and economic policy towards Cuba, with an aim
towards ending this damaging practice.
- to place enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns in developing new policy towards Cuba."

Clearly no immediate and unconditional end is demanded as Dan claims.
The request is for not stiffening the sanctions and to review a policy
that places "enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns".

See:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

Lies and more lies from comrade Dan Christensen, the resident Canadian
Stalinist propagandist of SCC.

PL
Dan Christensen
2007-07-20 03:45:36 UTC
Permalink
On Jul 19, 10:07 am, "PL" <***@pandora.be> wrote:

[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
On the contrary, you are the one who supports murder, torture and
genocide
(snip)
No I don't and you can't quote me on any of it.
[snip]

Prove me wrong right now and, for the first time, denounce the
genocidal US trade sanctions you have been so tirelessly promoting
here over the years -- sanctions that have been repeatedly condemned
on humanitarian grounds by AI, HRW, the UN, the Catholic Church and
others. And while you are at, let us see you denounce the murder and
torture the opponents of the US regime in its secret prisons around
the world -- also documented by AI and others. Again, one can just
imagine the reign of terror you would inflict on the Cuban people if
you ever got the chance again.

Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at
http://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
PL
2007-07-20 09:37:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
On the contrary, you are the one who supports murder, torture and
genocide
(snip)
No I don't and you can't quote me on any of it.
[snip]
Prove me wrong
(snip)

Easy: I have never supported muder, torture and genocide and you can quote
me doing any of that.
You accuse me: you have to make the case.
We both know you can't Mr. Serial Liar.
Unlike me you never have anything to back up what you say.


Your inability to substantiate any of it is the best proof of your lies.

Nothing more than another example of your lies and misquotes like the
ones below:

YOUR LIE about Wayne Smith
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=source&hl=en

HIS own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith said
during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the United States:
Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.

Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

PL
Dan Christensen
2007-07-20 16:04:58 UTC
Permalink
On Jul 20, 5:37 am, "PL" <***@pandora.be> wrote:

[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
On the contrary, you are the one who supports murder, torture and
genocide
(snip)
No I don't and you can't quote me on any of it.
[snip]
Prove me wrong
(snip)
Easy: I have never supported muder, torture and genocide and you can quote
me doing any of that.
[snip]

So, you refuse to denounce the murder and torture of opponents of the
US regime as documented by the AI and others. Nothing new here.

And you continue to refuse to comment of AI's recent condemnation of
your beloved on humanitarian grounds. Also nothing new.

If you continue to do so, do not expect a reply from me on this
matter.

Again, it is easy to imagine the reign of terror you would unleash on
the Cuban people if you ever got the chance again.

Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at
http://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
PL
2007-07-20 16:12:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
On the contrary, you are the one who supports murder, torture and
genocide
(snip)
No I don't and you can't quote me on any of it.
[snip]
Prove me wrong
(snip)
Easy: I have never supported muder, torture and genocide and you can quote
me doing any of that.
[snip]
So, you refuse to denounce the murder and torture o
(snip)

Again Mr. Cyber Liar:

I have never supported murder, torture and genocide and you can quote
me doing any of that.
You accuse me: you have to make the case.
Quit fooling around Serial Liar. Again I challenge you to post ANY quote
from me supporting murder, torture or genocide.
We both know you can't Mr. Serial Liar.
Unlike me you never have anything to back up what you say.

Here are some "quotable quotes" from you:

On the imprisonment of peacful dissidents:

Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well worth
fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures. In this
case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.....
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

unquote.

On how far you would support human rights abuses:

quote:
"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At this
time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to send death
squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and Colombia. Again, the
actions of the Cuban government in detaining these so-called dissidents seem
quite mild in comparison and are morally justified under the circumstances."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

Unquote

Your inability to substantiate any of your lies about me with any quote
it is the best proof of your lies.

Nothing more than another example of your lies and misquotes like the
ones below:

YOUR LIE about Wayne Smith
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=source&hl=en

HIS own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith said
during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the United States:
Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.

Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

PL

PL
2007-07-17 14:59:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Not as many seem to know that Genocide Watch (the Coordinator for the
International Campaign to End Genocide, founded in the Hague, Netherlands,
May 1999 -www.genocidewatch.org) has put the Castro regime on it's
list
of
governments guilty of genocide.
Did you forget about GW's recent climb-down in this regard, Mr.
Lobbyist?
no climbdown comrade Dan.
Castro is still in the list.
GW has completely lost its credibility on this matter. (snip)
Nope.
You have Mr. Serial liar.

Here is the story of your lie was exposed again:

YOUR LIE about Genocide Watch.

You falsely claimed the organization had copied (mindlessly) a number from a
book
by Rummel. Another case of "private information".
Upon verification it became clear that Rummel quoted a figure of 73,000
deaths attributable to the Castro regime.
Genocide Watch showed a figure of 75,000 which comrade Dan promptly
attributed to "sloppiness" in copying.

Your private lies can't refute the public record.
You tried this one on a couple of times and always failed.

Do you deny you got the numbers wrong in your lie and that the
"exclusive" source you falsely claimed was used by Genocide Watch (another
"private" message) actually
gave a LOWER figure than Genocide Watch.

" I have clearly shown that your claim that Mr. Rummel is the one and only
source Genocide Watch uses is false by proving that Mr. Rummel (whose
credibility you attack without proof) gives a different figures than
Genocide Watch (73,000 versus 75,0000). Genocide Watch correctly lists
Castro as a genocidal dictator because of his responsibility for the death
of over 75,000 people. "

When confronted with your lie you turned insult in to injury by claiming the
"made an error in copying", didn't you?

Dan's lie:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/ff0ab4c53757e8a0?dmode=source&hl=en

My exposure of his lie:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/a44230458e76b3c7?dmode=source&hl=en

Dan's pathetic claim Genocide Watch made a mistake:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/8eeb4ad61f1463d4?dmode=source&hl=en
Post by Dan Christensen
One can just image the reign on terror you would unleash on on the
Cuban people if you ever got the chance again!
Castro already has a system of fear, terror and repression in place.
http://www.cubaverdad.net/totalitarian_system.htm
Post by Dan Christensen
Whatever it takes,
right, Nazi boy?
You are the only one with a "nazi" attitude Dan Christensen:

You support a regime that:
- is on the list of genocide Watch:
http://www.cubaverdad.net/genocide.htm
- does not allow freedom of speech - like the Nazi regime
http://www.cubaverdad.net/freedom_of_speech.htm
- imprisons opponents (even having it's own concentration camps in the past:
the UMAP) - like the Nazi regime
http://www.cubaverdad.net/dissidents.htm
http://www.cubaverdad.net/independent_journalists_in_cuba.htm
more about the UMAP:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/msearch?query=UMAP&submit=Search&charset=UTF-8
- tortures opponents:
http://www.cubaverdad.net/torture_in_cuba.htm
- violates human rights - like the Nazi regime
http://www.cubaverdad.net/universal_declaration_of_human_rights.htm
- persecuted gays until very recently - like the Nazi regime
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/msearch?query=%22gay%22+OR+%22homo%22&submit=Search&charset=UTF-8
- burns books - like the Nazi regime
- uses harsh repression against its people and has a sophisticated system of
social control - like the Nazi regime
http://www.cubaverdad.net/totalitarian_system.htm
...
and of course there are your own words that show you attitude:
Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well worth
fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures. In this
case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.....
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At this
time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to send death
squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and Colombia. Again, the
actions of the Cuban government in detaining these so-called dissidents seem
quite mild in comparison and are morally justified under the circumstances."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

Again the standard reply to your "lobbyist" lie Mr. Cyber-liar:

Quote me comrade Dan. You claimed you can and you never did.
We both know you can't.

Try something like this:

Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures.
In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.......
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to
send death squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and
Colombia. Again, the actions of the Cuban government in detaining these
so-called dissidents seem quite mild in comparison and are morally
justified under the circumstances."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

Unquote.

You lie about me as you lied about Wayne Smith, Amnesty
International,
Genocide Watch, ..........

Still waiting for the "Geneva" proof comrade Dan.
That "episode" clearly exposes your lies.

As I said comrade Dan.
Every time you post that lie about me I post the truth about you.

Remember the lie about "lobbying in Geneva" while I actually was on
vacation in Cuba (as the source IP address of my posts in SCC at that
time prove).
This was your false claim:
"Taking a little break from arm-twisting in Geneva, Mr. Lobbyist?"
Link:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/b6375f9783e47aee?q=g:thl174670614d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8

Your inability to substantiate any of it is the best proof of your lies.

Nothing more than another example of your lies and misquotes like the
ones below:

YOUR LIE about Wayne Smith
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=source&hl=en

HIS own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith said
during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the United States:
Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.

Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

YOUR LIE about Amnesty International.
Another example of the same lie: putting words in people's mouth.

Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
that:

"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html

Link to the "report": (the one you didn't give until I shamed you in to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

They aren't calling for an "immediate and unconditional" end to the
trade sanctions in that report, are they?
Do you deny you snipped the words "immediate and unconditional" from
these sentences in the report (THE ONLY PLACES WHERE THEY ARE USED):

"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional
release."

In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.


" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."

and added to those snippets your own words to create this sentence on
your lying website:

" Amnesty International has explicitly denounced the US embargo on Cuba
in humanitarian terms, and made clear its support for the immediate and
unconditional lifting of these cruel sanctions"

that sentence:
1. isn't in the report
2. isn't supported by the tenure and the conclusions of the report

You snipped two three words used by Amnesty to condemn the Castro
regime and abused them in a sentence to imply support for your cause: a
BLATANT LIE.

What the report actually recommends about the "embargo" is:

"Amnesty International calls on the United States government
- to immediately suspend decisions on any measures that could toughen
the embargo.
- to review its foreign and economic policy towards Cuba, with an aim
towards ending this damaging practice.
- to place enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns in developing new policy towards Cuba."

Clearly no immediate and unconditional end is demanded as Dan claims.
The request is for not stiffening the sanctions and to review a policy
that places "enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns".

See:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

Lies and more lies from comrade Dan Christensen, the resident Canadian
Stalinist propagandist of SCC.

PL
Dan Christensen
2007-07-19 03:51:30 UTC
Permalink
On Jul 17, 10:59 am, "PL" <***@pandora.be> wrote:

[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Not as many seem to know that Genocide Watch (the Coordinator for the
International Campaign to End Genocide, founded in the Hague, Netherlands,
May 1999 -www.genocidewatch.org) has put the Castro regime on it's
list
of
governments guilty of genocide.
Did you forget about GW's recent climb-down in this regard, Mr.
Lobbyist?
no climbdown comrade Dan.
Castro is still in the list.
GW has completely lost its credibility on this matter. (snip)
Nope.
You have Mr. Serial liar.
YOUR LIE about Genocide Watch.
You falsely claimed the organization had copied (mindlessly) a number from a
book
by Rummel. Another case of "private information".
Upon verification it became clear that Rummel quoted a figure of 73,000
deaths attributable to the Castro regime.
Genocide Watch showed a figure of 75,000 which comrade Dan promptly
attributed to "sloppiness" in copying.
[snip]

Poor pathetic Little "Miss" Lobbyist! Just the thought of confirming
another source makes her poop her Little Pink Panties. She would much
rather play it safe with her silly little girlish games here than risk
getting her fat butt kicked again. Once bitten, twice shy, eh, Miss
Lobbyist??? (Hee, hee ,hee!)

Anyway, if you STILL have not found the balls to write to Mr. Stanton
(***@aol.com) to confirm what I said, do not expect a reply
from me on this matter. Not that it really matters at this point -- as
you yourself have confirmed, GW quietly yanked there outrageous claims
some time ago.

Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at
http://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
PL
2007-07-19 14:09:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Not as many seem to know that Genocide Watch (the Coordinator for the
International Campaign to End Genocide, founded in the Hague, Netherlands,
May 1999 -www.genocidewatch.org) has put the Castro regime on it's
list
of
governments guilty of genocide.
Did you forget about GW's recent climb-down in this regard, Mr.
Lobbyist?
no climbdown comrade Dan.
Castro is still in the list.
GW has completely lost its credibility on this matter. (snip)
Nope.
You have Mr. Serial liar.
YOUR LIE about Genocide Watch.
You falsely claimed the organization had copied (mindlessly) a number from a
book
by Rummel. Another case of "private information".
Upon verification it became clear that Rummel quoted a figure of 73,000
deaths attributable to the Castro regime.
Genocide Watch showed a figure of 75,000 which comrade Dan promptly
attributed to "sloppiness" in copying.
[snip]
Poor pathetic Little "Miss" Lobbyist!
(snip)

Insults don't change facts comrade Dan.
Here is the story of your lie was exposed again:

YOUR LIE about Genocide Watch.

You falsely claimed the organization had copied (mindlessly) a number from a
book
by Rummel. Another case of "private information".
Upon verification it became clear that Rummel quoted a figure of 73,000
deaths attributable to the Castro regime.
Genocide Watch showed a figure of 75,000 which comrade Dan promptly
attributed to "sloppiness" in copying.

Your private lies can't refute the public record.
You tried this one on a couple of times and always failed.

Do you deny you got the numbers wrong in your lie and that the
"exclusive" source you falsely claimed was used by Genocide Watch (another
"private" message) actually
gave a LOWER figure than Genocide Watch.

" I have clearly shown that your claim that Mr. Rummel is the one and only
source Genocide Watch uses is false by proving that Mr. Rummel (whose
credibility you attack without proof) gives a different figures than
Genocide Watch (73,000 versus 75,0000). Genocide Watch correctly lists
Castro as a genocidal dictator because of his responsibility for the death
of over 75,000 people. "

When confronted with your lie you turned insult in to injury by claiming the
"made an error in copying", didn't you?

Dan's lie:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/ff0ab4c53757e8a0?dmode=source&hl=en

My exposure of his lie:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/a44230458e76b3c7?dmode=source&hl=en

Dan's pathetic claim Genocide Watch made a mistake:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/8eeb4ad61f1463d4?dmode=source&hl=en


Again the standard reply to your "lobbyist" lie Mr. Cyber-liar:

Quote me comrade Dan. You claimed you can and you never did.
We both know you can't.

Try something like this:

Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures.
In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.......
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to
send death squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and
Colombia. Again, the actions of the Cuban government in detaining these
so-called dissidents seem quite mild in comparison and are morally
justified under the circumstances."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

Unquote.

You lie about me as you lied about Wayne Smith, Amnesty
International,
Genocide Watch, ..........

Still waiting for the "Geneva" proof comrade Dan.
That "episode" clearly exposes your lies.

As I said comrade Dan.
Every time you post that lie about me I post the truth about you.

Remember the lie about "lobbying in Geneva" while I actually was on
vacation in Cuba (as the source IP address of my posts in SCC at that
time prove).
This was your false claim:
"Taking a little break from arm-twisting in Geneva, Mr. Lobbyist?"
Link:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/b6375f9783e47aee?q=g:thl174670614d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8

Your inability to substantiate any of it is the best proof of your lies.

Nothing more than another example of your lies and misquotes like the
ones below:

YOUR LIE about Wayne Smith
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=source&hl=en

HIS own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith said
during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the United States:
Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.

Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

YOUR LIE about Amnesty International.
Another example of the same lie: putting words in people's mouth.

Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
that:

"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html

Link to the "report": (the one you didn't give until I shamed you in to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

They aren't calling for an "immediate and unconditional" end to the
trade sanctions in that report, are they?
Do you deny you snipped the words "immediate and unconditional" from
these sentences in the report (THE ONLY PLACES WHERE THEY ARE USED):

"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional
release."

In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.


" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."

and added to those snippets your own words to create this sentence on
your lying website:

" Amnesty International has explicitly denounced the US embargo on Cuba
in humanitarian terms, and made clear its support for the immediate and
unconditional lifting of these cruel sanctions"

that sentence:
1. isn't in the report
2. isn't supported by the tenure and the conclusions of the report

You snipped two three words used by Amnesty to condemn the Castro
regime and abused them in a sentence to imply support for your cause: a
BLATANT LIE.

What the report actually recommends about the "embargo" is:

"Amnesty International calls on the United States government
- to immediately suspend decisions on any measures that could toughen
the embargo.
- to review its foreign and economic policy towards Cuba, with an aim
towards ending this damaging practice.
- to place enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns in developing new policy towards Cuba."

Clearly no immediate and unconditional end is demanded as Dan claims.
The request is for not stiffening the sanctions and to review a policy
that places "enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns".

See:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

Lies and more lies from comrade Dan Christensen, the resident Canadian
Stalinist propagandist of SCC.

PL
M***@hotmail.com
2007-07-20 05:03:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Post by Dan Christensen
Post by PL
Not as many seem to know that Genocide Watch (the Coordinator for the
International Campaign to End Genocide, founded in the Hague, Netherlands,
May 1999 -www.genocidewatch.org) has put the Castro regime on it's
list
of
governments guilty of genocide.
Did you forget about GW's recent climb-down in this regard, Mr.
Lobbyist?
no climbdown comrade Dan.
Castro is still in the list.
GW has completely lost its credibility on this matter. (snip)
Nope.
You have Mr. Serial liar.
YOUR LIE about Genocide Watch.
You falsely claimed the organization had copied (mindlessly) a number from a
book
by Rummel. Another case of "private information".
Upon verification it became clear that Rummel quoted a figure of 73,000
deaths attributable to the Castro regime.
Genocide Watch showed a figure of 75,000 which comrade Dan promptly
attributed to "sloppiness" in copying.
[snip]
Poor pathetic Little "Miss" Lobbyist! Just the thought of confirming
another source makes her poop her Little Pink Panties. She would much
rather play it safe with her silly little girlish games here than risk
getting her fat butt kicked again. Once bitten, twice shy, eh, Miss
Lobbyist??? (Hee, hee ,hee!)
Anyway, if you STILL have not found the balls to write to Mr. Stanton
from me on this matter. Not that it really matters at this point -- as
you yourself have confirmed, GW quietly yanked there outrageous claims
some time ago.
Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website athttp://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
NAZI Dan you have no morals.
Dan Christensen
2007-07-16 04:20:48 UTC
Permalink
On Jul 14, 7:38 am, "PL" <***@pandora.be> wrote:

[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Quote me
[snip]

You would like us to forget all about your little indiscretion here
some years ago -- you actually boasting about your lobbying exploits,
the schmoozing, the golf games, etc. Too bad! It is now a matter of
public record. In addition to your own words here, we have your
prodigious production stats here and at other forums.

For all the quotes and details, see the thread "Top Official: US Wants
Cuba 'Liberation'" where our Mr. Lobbyist here obligingly runs through
almost his entire repertoire of desperate lies, distortions and
evasions, including those here, each debunked by yours truly at:

http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/browse_frm/thread/1ae3dea90e537555/da566b8afe2111a2?lnk=st&q=&rnum=1&hl=en#da566b8afe2111a2

Really, isn't it time for you to come clean on this matter, Mr.
Lobbyist? Your continued denials only serve to undermine what little
credibility you have left. Until you can do so, and if you are simply
going to keep repeating your tired old lies and evasions, do not
expect a reply from me on this matter.
Post by PL
Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html
[snip]

That was 4 years ago. As AI reiterated earlier this year:

"Amnesty International has called for the US embargo against Cuba to
be lifted, as it is highly detrimental to Cubans' enjoyment of a range
of economic, social and cultural rights, such as the right to food,
health and sanitation - particularly affecting the weakest and most
vulnerable members of the population. According to UNICEF, the
availability of medicines and basic medical materials has decreased in
Cuba as a consequence of the US embargo against the island." (AI
website)

Also see featured article, "Is the US embargo a form of genocide?" at
my website.

Mr. Lobbyist would actually have you believe that, despite their
obvious condemnation of his beloved embargo here, AI would actually
support these cruel sanctions of his for as long as it takes for
certain of his "preconditions" to be met! Yes, he really is that
desperate, that stupid and that cruel! Whatever it takes, right, Mr.
Lobbyist?


Dan
Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at
http://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
PL
2007-07-17 14:29:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Christensen
[snipping portions of PL's posting already debunked here, or too lame
to bother with]
Post by PL
Quote me
[snip]
You would like us to forget all about your little indiscretion here
(snip)
There is no "indescretion" comrade Dan Christensen and your constant
inablility to post direct quotes with links shows that you know you are
lying Mr. Cyber-Liar
and Cyber-Stalker.
Post by Dan Christensen
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/browse_frm/thread/1ae3dea90e537555/da566b8afe2111a2?lnk=st&q=&rnum=1&hl=en#da566b8afe2111a2
Nothing there comrade Dan. No links and quotes. Just you repeating your
lies.

Again the standard reply to your "lobbyist" lie Mr. Cyber-liar:

Quote me comrade Dan. You claimed you can and you never did.
We both know you can't.

Try something like this:

Quote:
"In my opinion the advances made by the Revolution are morally well
worth fighting for and justify the use of these extraordinary measures.
In this case, the ends do indeed justify the means.
.......
These measures, however, would NOT be morally justified in propping less
worthy regimes in the region -- the USA and its vassal states in the
Caribbean and Latin America come immediately to mind."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=tirG3.176162%245r2.278940%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

"It is wrong to think that a particular end justifies EVERY means. At
this time, for example, it would be wrong of the Cuban government to
send death squads after their opponents as happens in Mexico and
Colombia. Again, the actions of the Cuban government in detaining these
so-called dissidents seem quite mild in comparison and are morally
justified under the circumstances."

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=txMG3.176443%245r2.284921%40tor-nn1.netcom.ca

Unquote.

You lie about me as you lied about Wayne Smith, Amnesty
International,
Genocide Watch, ..........

Still waiting for the "Geneva" proof comrade Dan.
That "episode" clearly exposes your lies.

As I said comrade Dan.
Every time you post that lie about me I post the truth about you.

Remember the lie about "lobbying in Geneva" while I actually was on
vacation in Cuba (as the source IP address of my posts in SCC at that
time prove).
This was your false claim:
"Taking a little break from arm-twisting in Geneva, Mr. Lobbyist?"
Link:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/b6375f9783e47aee?q=g:thl174670614d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8

Your inability to substantiate any of it is the best proof of your lies.

Nothing more than another example of your lies and misquotes like the
ones below:

YOUR LIE about Wayne Smith
"It is clear from Smith's article here (and his website, CIP Online)
that he does, in fact, support an immediate and unconditional lifting
of your beloved embargo."
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.cuba/msg/3f1fe3a55c12d7d7?dmode=source&hl=en

HIS own words:

'We should reduce tensions, not aggravate it, making it clear to the Cuban
government that we do not have hostile intentions toward them,'' Smith said
during a 40-minute speech at a conference titled Cuba and the United States:
Relations in Permanent Conflict, Causes, Effects and Solutions.
''I did not say lift the embargo without conditions,'' he said.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/cuba/12157593.htm
You can enter after a free registration.

Permanent copy in the Cubaverdad archive:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CubaVerdad/message/16823

YOUR LIE about Amnesty International.
Another example of the same lie: putting words in people's mouth.

Do you deny that in your posts you put some snippets from the report
quoted below and on your site you also falsely claim about the same
report
that:

"Today, for the first time, Amnesty International has explicitly
denounced the US embargo on Cuba in humanitarian terms, and made clear
its support for the immediate and unconditional lifting of these cruel
sanctions"
http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ215.html

Link to the "report": (the one you didn't give until I shamed you in to it)
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

They aren't calling for an "immediate and unconditional" end to the
trade sanctions in that report, are they?
Do you deny you snipped the words "immediate and unconditional" from
these sentences in the report (THE ONLY PLACES WHERE THEY ARE USED):

"in 1.
"On the basis of the available information, therefore, Amnesty
International considers the 75 dissidents to be prisoners of
conscience(2) and calls for their immediate and unconditional
release."

In 8.1
" to immediately and unconditionally release the 15 prisoners
previously named by Amnesty International as prisoners of conscience.


" to immediately and unconditionally release anyone else who is
detained or imprisoned solely for having peacefully exercised their
rights to freedom of expression, association and assembly."

and added to those snippets your own words to create this sentence on
your lying website:

" Amnesty International has explicitly denounced the US embargo on Cuba
in humanitarian terms, and made clear its support for the immediate and
unconditional lifting of these cruel sanctions"

that sentence:
1. isn't in the report
2. isn't supported by the tenure and the conclusions of the report

You snipped two three words used by Amnesty to condemn the Castro
regime and abused them in a sentence to imply support for your cause: a
BLATANT LIE.

What the report actually recommends about the "embargo" is:

"Amnesty International calls on the United States government
- to immediately suspend decisions on any measures that could toughen
the embargo.
- to review its foreign and economic policy towards Cuba, with an aim
towards ending this damaging practice.
- to place enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns in developing new policy towards Cuba."

Clearly no immediate and unconditional end is demanded as Dan claims.
The request is for not stiffening the sanctions and to review a policy
that places "enjoyment of the full range of human rights at the
forefront of its concerns".

See:
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250172003?open&of=ENG-CUB

Lies and more lies from comrade Dan Christensen, the resident Canadian
Stalinist propagandist of SCC.

PL
Dan Christensen
2007-07-13 06:20:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by PL
The Castro regime is condemned world-wide as undemocratic. Most people are
aware of that.
Not as many seem to know that Genocide Watch (the Coordinator for the
International Campaign to End Genocide, founded in the Hague, Netherlands,
May 1999 -www.genocidewatch.org) has put the Castro regime on it's list of
governments guilty of genocide.
Did you forget about GW's recent climb-down in this regard, Mr.
Lobbyist? A major setback for all you embargo-Nazis, wasn't it?

Some time ago, I wrote to GW president, Gregory Stanton, pointing out
to him that no mainstream human rights group like Amnesty
International or Human Rights Watch will support the outrageous claims
at his website of some 75,000 deaths in Cuba. He could not explain
this, and simply referred me to their only source on Cuba -- a book by
US-based academic, Rudy Rummell. Apparently GW has never actually
investigated anything at all to do with Cuba! There isn't a single
article devoted to Cuba at their website -- only a large table listing
dozens of countries, perhaps for the purpose of impressing potential
donors, with a one-liner about Cuba. Anyway, some time late in 2005,
they withdrew their outrageous claim, their credibility on this issue
in tatters. I won't claim responsibility, but now they wisely decline
to give any specific figure at all -- progress of a sort, I guess.

Similarly the same year, the London-based International Centre for
Prison Studies, year also backed down on their outrageous claims about
Cuba. Now, they list the USA as having the highest incarceration rate
in the world, with Cuba a distant 8th. Must be frustrating as hell,
eh, Mr. Lobbyist?

Here is what HRW, as long ago as 1989, had to say about the
exaggerated claims of your political masters in Miami and
Washington:

"...[T]he Commission's initial decision to review human rights in Cuba
was due in large part to exaggerated U.S. charges of ongoing political
executions, disappearances and torture... [T]he U.N. delegation to
Cuba found no evidence to support those allegations."
http://www.hrw.org/reports/1989/WR89/Cuba.htm

So, it appears that the only genocide here, is in fact your beloved
embargo! Makes you proud, don't it, Mr. Lobbyist -- your very own
Final Solution!

See featured article, "Is the US embargo a form of genocide?" at my
website.

Dan

Visit my CUBA: Issues & Answers website at
http://www.netcom.ca/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
PL
2007-07-14 11:33:10 UTC
Permalink
stop posting everything twice Dan.
It is just annoying to all.
Continúe leyendo en narkive:
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