Discussion:
USA Poor are Fucked!
(demasiado antiguo para responder)
torresD
2003-09-27 22:10:20 UTC
Permalink
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3138232.stm
US inequality gap widens

By Steve Schifferes
BBC News Online economics reporter

Money has to stretch further for most Americans
The gap between rich and poor in America
is the widest in 70 years, according to a new
study published by the Center for Budget
and Policy Priorities.

The research, based on newly released
figures from the non-partisan Congressional
Budget Office,

shows that the top 1% of Americans -
who earn an average of $862,000
each after tax (or $1.3m before tax) -
receive more money than the 110m
Americans in the bottom 40% of the
income distribution,

whose income averages $21,350 each year.

The income going to the richest 1% has
gone up threefold in real terms in the past
twenty years, while the income of the poorest
40% went up by a more modest 11%.


The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades

In 1979, the top 1% received just
7.5% of national income, compared
to 15.5% in 2000.

The share of the poorest 40%,
in contrast, declined from 19.1% to 14.6%.

Tax cuts and earnings

In fact, the share of income received by
bottom 80% of Americans declined in
the past twenty years.

INCOMES OF RICH AND POOR
Bottom 20%: 1979 - $12,600
2000 - $13,700
Middle 20%: 1979 - $36,400
2000 - $41,900
Top 20%: 1979: $84,000
2000: $141,400
Top 1%: 1979 $286,300
2000: $862,700
After-tax household income
source: Center for Budget and Policy Priorities, CBO.
Only the top fifth increased their share, with their real incomes going up
by 68%.

Much of the growth in income at the top
has come from the extraordinary growth
in executive pay,

coupled with strong earnings growth
among highly-educated professionals
like doctors and lawyers.

But changes in the tax system have also favoured the rich.

US INCOME DISTRIBUTION
Bottom 20%: 4.9%
Second 20%: 9.7%
Middle 20%: 14.6%
Fourth 20%: 20.2%
Top 20%: 51.3%
Top 1%: 15.5%
% share of total after-tax income
source: Center for Budget and Policy Priorities, CBO.

The effective Federal tax rate on the
top 1% dropped from 37% in 1979 to
33.2% in 2000.

The tax rate for the middle fifth of the
income distribution also went down,
but by less, from 18.6% to 16.7%.

The two big tax cuts passed by the
Bush administration in 2001 and 2003 -
which are not taken into account in this study -
will increase that inequality further.

According to the Urban Institute-Brookings
Tax Policy Center,

the top 1% will gain on
average 4.6% in after-tax income
(or $26,000 per household) while the
middle fifth of the population gains
only 2.6% ($676 per household).

The fall in the stock market since 2000,
however, has reduced the income of the rich.

Political debate

Rising inequality, and the growing budget deficit,
has sparked a debate among Democrats over
whether to repeal those tax cuts.

Two candidates on the left of the Democratic Party,
Howard Dean and Richard Gephardt,
advocate repealing all the tax cuts and
using the money on providing extra benefits,
like universal health care, instead.

But moderate Democrats want to
preserve tax cuts for middle-income
Americans.

"The middle class is stressed today,"

said Senator Joe Lieberman in a
recent Democratic presidential debate.

Republicans, meanwhile,
argue that giving more money to the rich
will encourage job creation and enrich
everyone in the end.

They point with pride to the growing number
of millionaires in the US, which demonstrates
that social mobility is still possible.

One factor in the political equation is that,
with a low turnout in most US elections,
the poor are much less likely to vote
than the better-off.

The CBPP study looked at after tax
incomes of the US population in 1979,
1989, and 2000, peaks of the economic
cycle, using new data on top incomes
released by the Congressional Budget Office.

A separate study by the National Bureau
for Economic Research studied the
income share of the top 1% from
1913 to the present.
Tom Shelly, Legendary White God
2003-09-27 23:04:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by torresD
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
Gee...do you think the statistics have anything to do with the massive
immigration this country has experienced in the last two decades?

Gee...just maybe your statistics are bullshit, huh?

In my State alone, California, immigration has accounted for over 90%
of the population increase here. That's right 90% over the last ten
years.

Now, with all those dumb assed, poor Mexicans coming in, don't you
think the gap would increase between 'rich and poor'? Duh..

And by the way, 100K or more a year is not rich, it's just someone who
works hard to provide for his family.

Tom Shelly, White God
J R-S
2003-09-27 23:46:47 UTC
Permalink
Excuse me sir...

Do you know what California means? Well, just so happens that Cali means
gold and fornia stands for land of..

Yes, California was the "Land of Gold" founded by Spaniards a long time ago.
Just so happens that besides native americans to whom that land really
belongs to, the spaniard descendants are the true owner because they mixed
with the indians. They even brought the horses to the wild-wild west
brainless pig!

So, if there is an inmigrant in California, that person speaks English.

Same thing applies to Texas, Nevada(Snow Storm), Nuevo México (New Mexico),
Arizona (Arid Zone), Oregón (Adams-Onis Treaty cedes Spain's discovery
rights north of 42 degrees to the U. S), Luisiana (Luis and Ann), Florida
(Blossom), and half of the US of A.

Give California and Texas back to the Mexicans and lets see how poor that
country is and how rich the US of A will be.

Mexicans, Chicanos and people of spanish descent are not the inmigrants,
anglos are...

jrs
Post by Tom Shelly, Legendary White God
Post by torresD
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
Gee...do you think the statistics have anything to do with the massive
immigration this country has experienced in the last two decades?
Gee...just maybe your statistics are bullshit, huh?
In my State alone, California, immigration has accounted for over 90%
of the population increase here. That's right 90% over the last ten
years.
Now, with all those dumb assed, poor Mexicans coming in, don't you
think the gap would increase between 'rich and poor'? Duh..
And by the way, 100K or more a year is not rich, it's just someone who
works hard to provide for his family.
Tom Shelly, White God
unknown
2003-09-28 00:33:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by J R-S
Excuse me sir...
Do you know what California means? Well, just so happens that Cali means
gold and fornia stands for land of..
Yes, California was the "Land of Gold" founded by Spaniards a long time ago.
Just so happens that besides native americans to whom that land really
belongs to, the spaniard descendants are the true owner because they mixed
with the indians. They even brought the horses to the wild-wild west
brainless pig!
So, if there is an inmigrant in California, that person speaks English.
Same thing applies to Texas, Nevada(Snow Storm), Nuevo México (New Mexico),
Arizona (Arid Zone), Oregón (Adams-Onis Treaty cedes Spain's discovery
rights north of 42 degrees to the U. S), Luisiana (Luis and Ann), Florida
(Blossom), and half of the US of A.
Give California and Texas back to the Mexicans and lets see how poor that
country is and how rich the US of A will be.
Mexicans, Chicanos and people of spanish descent are not the inmigrants,
anglos are...
Wrong by yer own reasoning they took the land from the Indians, many
of whom were slaughtered or enslaved by the Spanish conquistadors.
J R-S
2003-09-28 02:13:10 UTC
Permalink
Excuse me, that doesn't change the fact that the only inmigrants are the
anglos
And, BTW, look at the majority of chicanos, Mexicans that have no ties to
Mexico but are true Californians, and tell me who they resamble the most,
Spaniards or Indians.

Boy, you are just stepping on it. California has more spanish than anglo.
Think about it everytime you pass in front of a street or city that has
spanish name.
Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco, etc...

Who is the inmigrant you fool?

jrs
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
Excuse me sir...
Do you know what California means? Well, just so happens that Cali means
gold and fornia stands for land of..
Yes, California was the "Land of Gold" founded by Spaniards a long time ago.
Just so happens that besides native americans to whom that land really
belongs to, the spaniard descendants are the true owner because they mixed
with the indians. They even brought the horses to the wild-wild west
brainless pig!
So, if there is an inmigrant in California, that person speaks English.
Same thing applies to Texas, Nevada(Snow Storm), Nuevo México (New Mexico),
Arizona (Arid Zone), Oregón (Adams-Onis Treaty cedes Spain's discovery
rights north of 42 degrees to the U. S), Luisiana (Luis and Ann), Florida
(Blossom), and half of the US of A.
Give California and Texas back to the Mexicans and lets see how poor that
country is and how rich the US of A will be.
Mexicans, Chicanos and people of spanish descent are not the inmigrants,
anglos are...
Wrong by yer own reasoning they took the land from the Indians, many
of whom were slaughtered or enslaved by the Spanish conquistadors.
unknown
2003-09-28 02:41:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by J R-S
Excuse me, that doesn't change the fact that the only inmigrants are the
anglos
And, BTW, look at the majority of chicanos, Mexicans that have no ties to
Mexico but are true Californians, and tell me who they resamble the most,
Spaniards or Indians.
Unless they're 100% American Indian, they're immigrants too.
Post by J R-S
Boy, you are just stepping on it. California has more spanish than anglo.
So what?
Post by J R-S
Think about it everytime you pass in front of a street or city that has
spanish name.
Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco, etc...
As if?
Post by J R-S
Who is the inmigrant you fool?
Everyone, except the native Indian tribes (the ones that Davis and
Bustamante kiss up too), dunce.
Post by J R-S
jrs
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
Excuse me sir...
Do you know what California means? Well, just so happens that Cali means
gold and fornia stands for land of..
Yes, California was the "Land of Gold" founded by Spaniards a long time
ago.
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
Just so happens that besides native americans to whom that land really
belongs to, the spaniard descendants are the true owner because they
mixed
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
with the indians. They even brought the horses to the wild-wild west
brainless pig!
So, if there is an inmigrant in California, that person speaks English.
Same thing applies to Texas, Nevada(Snow Storm), Nuevo México (New
Mexico),
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
Arizona (Arid Zone), Oregón (Adams-Onis Treaty cedes Spain's discovery
rights north of 42 degrees to the U. S), Luisiana (Luis and Ann), Florida
(Blossom), and half of the US of A.
Give California and Texas back to the Mexicans and lets see how poor that
country is and how rich the US of A will be.
Mexicans, Chicanos and people of spanish descent are not the inmigrants,
anglos are...
Wrong by yer own reasoning they took the land from the Indians, many
of whom were slaughtered or enslaved by the Spanish conquistadors.
J R-S
2003-09-28 03:15:26 UTC
Permalink
Just fell for it, couldn't help it, could you? I bet you are a red-neck...

Now, this is what you posted and what I knew you were going to reply with

You wrote and I quote...
"Everyone, except the native Indian tribes (the ones that Davis and
Bustamante kiss up too), dunce."

Now, What are the inmigrants doing wrong again?

You just called yourself an inmigrant too dumb ass.

jrs
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
Excuse me, that doesn't change the fact that the only inmigrants are the
anglos
And, BTW, look at the majority of chicanos, Mexicans that have no ties to
Mexico but are true Californians, and tell me who they resamble the most,
Spaniards or Indians.
Unless they're 100% American Indian, they're immigrants too.
Post by J R-S
Boy, you are just stepping on it. California has more spanish than anglo.
So what?
Post by J R-S
Think about it everytime you pass in front of a street or city that has
spanish name.
Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco, etc...
As if?
Post by J R-S
Who is the inmigrant you fool?
Everyone, except the native Indian tribes (the ones that Davis and
Bustamante kiss up too), dunce.
Post by J R-S
jrs
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
Excuse me sir...
Do you know what California means? Well, just so happens that Cali means
gold and fornia stands for land of..
Yes, California was the "Land of Gold" founded by Spaniards a long time
ago.
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
Just so happens that besides native americans to whom that land really
belongs to, the spaniard descendants are the true owner because they
mixed
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
with the indians. They even brought the horses to the wild-wild west
brainless pig!
So, if there is an inmigrant in California, that person speaks English.
Same thing applies to Texas, Nevada(Snow Storm), Nuevo México (New
Mexico),
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
Arizona (Arid Zone), Oregón (Adams-Onis Treaty cedes Spain's discovery
rights north of 42 degrees to the U. S), Luisiana (Luis and Ann), Florida
(Blossom), and half of the US of A.
Give California and Texas back to the Mexicans and lets see how poor that
country is and how rich the US of A will be.
Mexicans, Chicanos and people of spanish descent are not the inmigrants,
anglos are...
Wrong by yer own reasoning they took the land from the Indians, many
of whom were slaughtered or enslaved by the Spanish conquistadors.
unknown
2003-09-28 03:34:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by J R-S
Just fell for it, couldn't help it, could you? I bet you are a red-neck...
Wrong.
Post by J R-S
Now, this is what you posted and what I knew you were going to reply with
Horseshiite.
Post by J R-S
You wrote and I quote...
"Everyone, except the native Indian tribes (the ones that Davis and
Bustamante kiss up too), dunce."
Yep.
Post by J R-S
Now, What are the inmigrants doing wrong again?
Well now tell us where the Mexicans came from.
Post by J R-S
You just called yourself an inmigrant too dumb ass.
So what, I already said that implicitly. Gawd yer lost and confused.
Post by J R-S
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
Excuse me, that doesn't change the fact that the only inmigrants are the
anglos
And, BTW, look at the majority of chicanos, Mexicans that have no ties to
Mexico but are true Californians, and tell me who they resamble the most,
Spaniards or Indians.
Unless they're 100% American Indian, they're immigrants too.
Post by J R-S
Boy, you are just stepping on it. California has more spanish than
anglo.
Post by unknown
So what?
Post by J R-S
Think about it everytime you pass in front of a street or city that has
spanish name.
Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco, etc...
As if?
Post by J R-S
Who is the inmigrant you fool?
Everyone, except the native Indian tribes (the ones that Davis and
Bustamante kiss up too), dunce.
Post by J R-S
jrs
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
Excuse me sir...
Do you know what California means? Well, just so happens that Cali
means
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
gold and fornia stands for land of..
Yes, California was the "Land of Gold" founded by Spaniards a long
time
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
ago.
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
Just so happens that besides native americans to whom that land really
belongs to, the spaniard descendants are the true owner because they
mixed
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
with the indians. They even brought the horses to the wild-wild west
brainless pig!
So, if there is an inmigrant in California, that person speaks
English.
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
Same thing applies to Texas, Nevada(Snow Storm), Nuevo México (New
Mexico),
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
Arizona (Arid Zone), Oregón (Adams-Onis Treaty cedes Spain's discovery
rights north of 42 degrees to the U. S), Luisiana (Luis and Ann),
Florida
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
(Blossom), and half of the US of A.
Give California and Texas back to the Mexicans and lets see how poor
that
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
country is and how rich the US of A will be.
Mexicans, Chicanos and people of spanish descent are not the
inmigrants,
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
anglos are...
Wrong by yer own reasoning they took the land from the Indians, many
of whom were slaughtered or enslaved by the Spanish conquistadors.
pedro martori
2003-09-28 06:00:49 UTC
Permalink
his got reverse racism vomits...

the only aboriginal and original ones were the american natives.
mexicans were not in the picture...even by the time the spaniards passed
briefly thru the western states...
it was much later that this part of the USA became part of the Spanish
Empire, under the name of Mexico.
And that is no reason to call the area natives mexicans...since it, prior to
the spanish conquest, that whole area was open territory and then became
part of Mexico under the spaniards rulers...
later the USA took it from the mexicans when the mexican--american war.
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
Just fell for it, couldn't help it, could you? I bet you are a red-neck...
Wrong.
Post by J R-S
Now, this is what you posted and what I knew you were going to reply with
Horseshiite.
Post by J R-S
You wrote and I quote...
"Everyone, except the native Indian tribes (the ones that Davis and
Bustamante kiss up too), dunce."
Yep.
Post by J R-S
Now, What are the inmigrants doing wrong again?
Well now tell us where the Mexicans came from.
Post by J R-S
You just called yourself an inmigrant too dumb ass.
So what, I already said that implicitly. Gawd yer lost and confused.
Post by J R-S
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
Excuse me, that doesn't change the fact that the only inmigrants are the
anglos
And, BTW, look at the majority of chicanos, Mexicans that have no ties to
Mexico but are true Californians, and tell me who they resamble the most,
Spaniards or Indians.
Unless they're 100% American Indian, they're immigrants too.
Post by J R-S
Boy, you are just stepping on it. California has more spanish than
anglo.
Post by unknown
So what?
Post by J R-S
Think about it everytime you pass in front of a street or city that has
spanish name.
Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco, etc...
As if?
Post by J R-S
Who is the inmigrant you fool?
Everyone, except the native Indian tribes (the ones that Davis and
Bustamante kiss up too), dunce.
Post by J R-S
jrs
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
Excuse me sir...
Do you know what California means? Well, just so happens that Cali
means
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
gold and fornia stands for land of..
Yes, California was the "Land of Gold" founded by Spaniards a long
time
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
ago.
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
Just so happens that besides native americans to whom that land really
belongs to, the spaniard descendants are the true owner because they
mixed
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
with the indians. They even brought the horses to the wild-wild west
brainless pig!
So, if there is an inmigrant in California, that person speaks
English.
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
Same thing applies to Texas, Nevada(Snow Storm), Nuevo México (New
Mexico),
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
Arizona (Arid Zone), Oregón (Adams-Onis Treaty cedes Spain's discovery
rights north of 42 degrees to the U. S), Luisiana (Luis and Ann),
Florida
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
(Blossom), and half of the US of A.
Give California and Texas back to the Mexicans and lets see how poor
that
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
country is and how rich the US of A will be.
Mexicans, Chicanos and people of spanish descent are not the
inmigrants,
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
anglos are...
Wrong by yer own reasoning they took the land from the Indians, many
of whom were slaughtered or enslaved by the Spanish conquistadors.
---
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Kafou Lobo
2003-09-28 09:22:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
Who is the inmigrant you fool?
Everyone, except the native Indian tribes
Cool, will you tell the other Klansmen? Thanks.

Kafou
Byker
2003-09-29 02:46:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
Excuse me, that doesn't change the fact that the only inmigrants are the
anglos
And, BTW, look at the majority of chicanos, Mexicans that have no ties to
Mexico but are true Californians, and tell me who they resamble the most,
Spaniards or Indians.
Unless they're 100% American Indian, they're immigrants too.
Injuns are immigrants, if you really think about it. They just beat
Columbus here by 12,000 years, that's all....
J R-S
2003-09-29 12:20:18 UTC
Permalink
Yeah, they beat him.

jrs
Post by Byker
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
Excuse me, that doesn't change the fact that the only inmigrants are the
anglos
And, BTW, look at the majority of chicanos, Mexicans that have no ties to
Mexico but are true Californians, and tell me who they resamble the most,
Spaniards or Indians.
Unless they're 100% American Indian, they're immigrants too.
Injuns are immigrants, if you really think about it. They just beat
Columbus here by 12,000 years, that's all....
pedro martori
2003-09-28 05:50:27 UTC
Permalink
Centroamericanos residentes en Estados Unidos envian mas de 5,000 millones
de dolares anuales a sus paises. Mexicanos residentes en Estados Unidos
envian una suma proporcionalmente mayor.
Pastores por la Paz y otras organizaciones cristianas llevan anualmente al
gobierno de Fidel Castro varios millones de dolares en donaciones.
Los propios exilados cubanos envian mas de mil millones de dolares a Cuba.
El gobierno de los Estados Unidos distribuyen anualmente varias decenas de
miles de millones de dolares en ayuda a paises de Africa, Asia y Latino
America.
Diariamente emigran a Estados Unidos, legal e ilegalmente, miles de
personas que segun los voceros en defensa de dicha emigracion consiguen
trabajo en su mayoria.
Sin embargo el articulo que a continuacion reproducimos menciona que en
Estados Unidos existen 35 millones de personas pobres, que significa escasez
de trabajo y desempleo.
¿Si hay esa pobreza, porque de esa estampida de emigrantes, que incluso hace
que el presidente FOX de Mexico pida a Bush que le de via verde?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

EU tiene más de 35 millones de pobres

Victoria Infante
Reportera de La Opinión

27 de septiembre de 2003

El nivel de pobreza en el país aumentó por segundo año consecutivo, y pasó
del 11.7% en 2001 al 12.1% en 2002, informó la Oficina del Censo ayer y
estableció el número de pobres en más de 35 millones. Eso significa que el
año pasado 1.7 millones de estadounidenses se sumaron a la lista de personas
pobres, en comparación con las cifras de 2001. Más de 35 millones de
personas, según los datos de 2002, vivían en la pobreza en Estados Unidos.
Entre los latinos, que tienen una tasa de pobreza del 21.8%, unos 315 mil se
sumaron a las personas que viven en la "extrema" pobreza.La oficina también
reveló que el ingreso promedio en los hogares estadounidenses bajó un 1.1%
el año pasado, a 42,409 dólares anuales. Es decir que la mitad de todos los
hogares perciben más de esa cantidad y la otra mitad menos.El nivel de
pobreza aumentó de nuevo después de haber caído por casi una década al 11.3%
en 2000, el nivel más bajo en más de 25 años. Los niveles de ingreso se
incrementaron durante casi toda la década de los 90, luego se estabilizaron
en 2000 y cayeron de nuevo en los dos últimos años."Han sido varios factores
los que han influido, entre otros la desaceleración económica provocada por
los ataques terroristas del 11 de septiembre, lo que, a su vez, afectó al
sector turístico y muchas personas perdieron sus trabajos. También ha
influido el crecimiento de la industria manufacturera china", explicó Jack
Kyser, economista jefe de la Corporación para el Desarrollo Económico del
Condado de Los Angeles (LAEDC).En California, dijo el economista, muchos de
los trabajos perdidos eran desempeñados por latinos.Otros factores que
también han influido en el aumento del nivel de pobreza en el país es la
llegada de inmigrantes indocumentados con un nivel de preparación bajo, dijo
Kyser.Otros analistas consideran que ésta es la peor situación que el país
ha experimentado en los últimos 30 años, y es posible que cada vez haya más
gente sumida en la pobreza porque la economía no está generando empleos.Los
expertos han vaticinado que el aumento del desempleo del año pasado y la
todavía inestable economía aumentará la pobreza y disminuirá el ingreso para
la mayoría de la gente, a pesar de que oficialmente la recesión terminó en
noviembre de 2001."La recuperación será más lenta de lo que cualquiera
quisiera. Los negocios serán muy cautelosos para hacer cualquier movimiento"
, advirtió Kyser.
Daniel Weinberg, estadista de la Oficina del Censo, dijo que los cambios
entre 2001 y 2002 fueron consistentes con los cambios de pasadas recesiones.
"El punto más alto en el ciclo de pobreza y el punto más bajo en el ingreso
tienden a venir en el año después de la recesión", dijo en una conferencia
de prensa que se efectuó ayer en la sede de las oficinas del censo en
Suitland, Maryland.Los datos del censo también indicaron que el número de
personas en situación de pobreza severa aumentó de 13.4 millones en 2001 a
14.1 en 2002, y el número de individuos que se encuentran justo en el umbral
de la pobreza, 12.5 millones, no varió.La cifra de latinos en el nivel de
pobreza, 21.8 millones, tampoco cambió, según el reporte.La Oficina del
Censo no ofreció información por estado; sin embargo, los datos que se
dieron a conocer sugieren que el ingreso promedio de los californianos cayó
un 11.5% durante dos años, de 2000 a 2002.El informe destacó, como puntos
positivos, que disminuyeron tanto la desigualdad salarial como la brecha
entre los salarios de los hombres y de las mujeres. Así, las mujeres, en
general, ganan 77 centavos por cada dólar que reciben los hombres.
En el único estado donde aumentó el ingreso promedio fue en Oklahoma, pero
bajó en lugares como Illinois, Michigan, Missouri, Ohio, Florida, Hawai y
Nevada. Sólo las casas en donde la cabeza de la familia es nacida fuera del
país mostraron un declive en el ingreso de 3.9%.Para blancos no latinos, el
ingreso promedio bajó sólo un 0.3% el año pasado, a 46,900 dólares en 2002.
En contraste, el ingreso promedio disminuyó un 3% entre los afroamericanos y
un 2.9% entre los latinos.Los cálculos, elaborados anualmente por la Oficina
del Censo, se basaron en una encuesta de 78 mil hogares realizada en marzo
sobre ingresos y pobreza.Por primera vez en 2002, el censo permitió a los
encuestados responder si pertenecían a más de una raza. Esta situación
complicó la comparación de las tasas de pobreza e ingresos entre grupos
raciales.En las estadísticas de 2002, el gobierno consideró pobres a las
personas de menos de 65 años de edad que vivían solas y tenían ingresos de
9,359 dólares anuales o menos; y a las familias de tres miembros -entre
ellos un niño- que ganaron 14,480 dólares, por ejemplo. Para una familia de
cuatro personas, el nivel de pobreza son 18,244 dólares anuales.La Casa
Blanca indicó que la economía creció a un ritmo del 3.3% anual durante la
primavera, y que los recortes en los impuestos propuestos por el presidente
George Bush tenían la intención de respaldar los ingresos y bajar el nivel
de pobreza el año próximo.Los demócratas criticaron la "miopía" del
gobierno, al indicar que los recortes multimillonarios de impuestos
abultarán el déficit fiscal y que, desde que Bush asumió el poder en 2001,
se han perdido 3.3 millones de empleos en el sector privado.Aseguraron
además que la cifra de "nuevos pobres" no augura buenas noticias para un
país ya afectado por los altos costos de la posguerra en Irak.El informe
Encuesta de la Población Actual de la Oficina del Censo, indica "que las
políticas económicas de Bush dificultan el progreso de las familias de clase
media, que cargan con el peso de la mala gestión del mandatario, la peor
registrada desde (el presidente) Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)", dijo en un
comunicado la líder de la minoría demócrata en la Cámara de Representantes,
Nancy Pelosi.Los republicanos prefirieron destacar que el nivel de pobreza
actual es "significativamente" inferior al 13.7% de 1996, cuando entró en
vigor la reforma del welfare, y que no hubo cambios en el nivel de pobreza
de los niños."Es hora de aprobar más reformas [al welfare] que promuevan la
creación de empleos y el fortalecimiento de las familias, para reducir aún
más la pobreza", dijo el congresista republicano Wally Herger de
California.El Fondo de Defensa de los Niños (CDF) criticó nuevamente a Bush,
principalmente por los exiguos fondos para programas sociales destinados a
las familias pobres.El estudio indicó que más de 12,1 millones de niños
viven ahora bajo el nivel de pobreza. La lista de nuevos niños pobres
aumentó por unos 400 mil, la mayoría de ellos latinos (223 mil) y negros
(más de 153 mil)."Nuestros niños empobrecen más mientras la Administración
Bush y líderes del Congreso tratan de desmantelar las protecciones para la
niñez", para cubrir los recortes de impuestos y la posguerra en Irak, dijo
Marian Wright Edelman, presidenta del CDF.Según el CDF, millones de niños en
edad preescolar viven en barrios de miseria, con mayores posibilidades de
acostarse sin comer o de estar expuestos a la violencia.La Oficina del Censo
indicó que, del total de pobres, unos 14 millones viven prácticamente en la
miseria, con salarios que no les permiten cubrir todas sus necesidades.Según
el estudio, los pobres están más concentrados en el sur del país, el 13.8%
de la población, mientras que en el oeste conforman el 12.4%, en la zona
central el 10.3% y en el noreste, el 10.9%. (En la nota se usaron algunos
datos de los servicios de La Opinión)




lavozdecubalibre.com
Post by J R-S
Excuse me, that doesn't change the fact that the only inmigrants are the
anglos
And, BTW, look at the majority of chicanos, Mexicans that have no ties to
Mexico but are true Californians, and tell me who they resamble the most,
Spaniards or Indians.
Boy, you are just stepping on it. California has more spanish than anglo.
Think about it everytime you pass in front of a street or city that has
spanish name.
Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco, etc...
Who is the inmigrant you fool?
jrs
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
Excuse me sir...
Do you know what California means? Well, just so happens that Cali means
gold and fornia stands for land of..
Yes, California was the "Land of Gold" founded by Spaniards a long time
ago.
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
Just so happens that besides native americans to whom that land really
belongs to, the spaniard descendants are the true owner because they
mixed
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
with the indians. They even brought the horses to the wild-wild west
brainless pig!
So, if there is an inmigrant in California, that person speaks English.
Same thing applies to Texas, Nevada(Snow Storm), Nuevo México (New
Mexico),
Post by unknown
Post by J R-S
Arizona (Arid Zone), Oregón (Adams-Onis Treaty cedes Spain's discovery
rights north of 42 degrees to the U. S), Luisiana (Luis and Ann), Florida
(Blossom), and half of the US of A.
Give California and Texas back to the Mexicans and lets see how poor that
country is and how rich the US of A will be.
Mexicans, Chicanos and people of spanish descent are not the inmigrants,
anglos are...
Wrong by yer own reasoning they took the land from the Indians, many
of whom were slaughtered or enslaved by the Spanish conquistadors.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.520 / Virus Database: 318 - Release Date: 9/19/2003
mdginzo
2003-09-28 22:38:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by J R-S
Excuse me, that doesn't change the fact that the only inmigrants are the
anglos
And, BTW, look at the majority of chicanos, Mexicans that have no ties to
Mexico but are true Californians, and tell me who they resamble the most,
Spaniards or Indians.
Boy, you are just stepping on it. California has more spanish than anglo.
Think about it everytime you pass in front of a street or city that has
spanish name.
Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco, etc...
Who is the inmigrant you fool?
The US stole California fair and square. Get over it.
J R-S
2003-09-29 00:14:32 UTC
Permalink
And the Chicanos are getting it back fair and square, now, YOU get over
it...

jrs
Post by mdginzo
Post by J R-S
Excuse me, that doesn't change the fact that the only inmigrants are the
anglos
And, BTW, look at the majority of chicanos, Mexicans that have no ties to
Mexico but are true Californians, and tell me who they resamble the most,
Spaniards or Indians.
Boy, you are just stepping on it. California has more spanish than anglo.
Think about it everytime you pass in front of a street or city that has
spanish name.
Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco, etc...
Who is the inmigrant you fool?
The US stole California fair and square. Get over it.
Jaberwokie
2003-09-28 01:01:45 UTC
Permalink
la Raza go home!
Post by J R-S
Excuse me sir...
Do you know what California means? Well, just so happens that Cali means
gold and fornia stands for land of..
Yes, California was the "Land of Gold" founded by Spaniards a long time ago.
Just so happens that besides native americans to whom that land really
belongs to, the spaniard descendants are the true owner because they mixed
with the indians. They even brought the horses to the wild-wild west
brainless pig!
So, if there is an inmigrant in California, that person speaks English.
Same thing applies to Texas, Nevada(Snow Storm), Nuevo México (New Mexico),
Arizona (Arid Zone), Oregón (Adams-Onis Treaty cedes Spain's discovery
rights north of 42 degrees to the U. S), Luisiana (Luis and Ann), Florida
(Blossom), and half of the US of A.
Give California and Texas back to the Mexicans and lets see how poor that
country is and how rich the US of A will be.
Mexicans, Chicanos and people of spanish descent are not the inmigrants,
anglos are...
jrs
Post by Tom Shelly, Legendary White God
Post by torresD
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
Gee...do you think the statistics have anything to do with the massive
immigration this country has experienced in the last two decades?
Gee...just maybe your statistics are bullshit, huh?
In my State alone, California, immigration has accounted for over 90%
of the population increase here. That's right 90% over the last ten
years.
Now, with all those dumb assed, poor Mexicans coming in, don't you
think the gap would increase between 'rich and poor'? Duh..
And by the way, 100K or more a year is not rich, it's just someone who
works hard to provide for his family.
Tom Shelly, White God
torresD
2003-09-28 01:06:48 UTC
Permalink
La Raza is home, in California and Texas.
California and Texas were owned by Mexico
and the Mexicans have taken it back.
Post by Jaberwokie
la Raza go home!
Post by J R-S
Excuse me sir...
Do you know what California means? Well, just so happens that Cali means
gold and fornia stands for land of..
Yes, California was the "Land of Gold" founded by Spaniards a long time ago.
Just so happens that besides native americans to whom that land really
belongs to, the spaniard descendants are the true owner because they mixed
with the indians. They even brought the horses to the wild-wild west
brainless pig!
So, if there is an inmigrant in California, that person speaks English.
Same thing applies to Texas, Nevada(Snow Storm), Nuevo México (New Mexico),
Arizona (Arid Zone), Oregón (Adams-Onis Treaty cedes Spain's discovery
rights north of 42 degrees to the U. S), Luisiana (Luis and Ann), Florida
(Blossom), and half of the US of A.
Give California and Texas back to the Mexicans and lets see how poor that
country is and how rich the US of A will be.
Mexicans, Chicanos and people of spanish descent are not the inmigrants,
anglos are...
jrs
Post by Tom Shelly, Legendary White God
Post by torresD
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
Gee...do you think the statistics have anything to do with the massive
immigration this country has experienced in the last two decades?
Gee...just maybe your statistics are bullshit, huh?
In my State alone, California, immigration has accounted for over 90%
of the population increase here. That's right 90% over the last ten
years.
Now, with all those dumb assed, poor Mexicans coming in, don't you
think the gap would increase between 'rich and poor'? Duh..
And by the way, 100K or more a year is not rich, it's just someone who
works hard to provide for his family.
Tom Shelly, White God
unknown
2003-09-28 01:23:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by torresD
La Raza is home, in California and Texas.
California and Texas were owned by Mexico
and the Mexicans have taken it back.
And they were "owned" by the Indians before that. So maybe the
tribes should "take it back" too.

No wonder Cruz Bustamante plays nice with the Indians.
Post by torresD
Post by Jaberwokie
la Raza go home!
Post by J R-S
Excuse me sir...
Do you know what California means? Well, just so happens that Cali
means
Post by Jaberwokie
Post by J R-S
gold and fornia stands for land of..
Yes, California was the "Land of Gold" founded by Spaniards a long time
ago.
Post by Jaberwokie
Post by J R-S
Just so happens that besides native americans to whom that land really
belongs to, the spaniard descendants are the true owner because they
mixed
Post by Jaberwokie
Post by J R-S
with the indians. They even brought the horses to the wild-wild west
brainless pig!
So, if there is an inmigrant in California, that person speaks English.
Same thing applies to Texas, Nevada(Snow Storm), Nuevo México (New
Mexico),
Post by Jaberwokie
Post by J R-S
Arizona (Arid Zone), Oregón (Adams-Onis Treaty cedes Spain's discovery
rights north of 42 degrees to the U. S), Luisiana (Luis and Ann),
Florida
Post by Jaberwokie
Post by J R-S
(Blossom), and half of the US of A.
Give California and Texas back to the Mexicans and lets see how poor
that
Post by Jaberwokie
Post by J R-S
country is and how rich the US of A will be.
Mexicans, Chicanos and people of spanish descent are not the inmigrants,
anglos are...
jrs
Post by Tom Shelly, Legendary White God
Post by torresD
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
Gee...do you think the statistics have anything to do with the massive
immigration this country has experienced in the last two decades?
Gee...just maybe your statistics are bullshit, huh?
In my State alone, California, immigration has accounted for over 90%
of the population increase here. That's right 90% over the last ten
years.
Now, with all those dumb assed, poor Mexicans coming in, don't you
think the gap would increase between 'rich and poor'? Duh..
And by the way, 100K or more a year is not rich, it's just someone who
works hard to provide for his family.
Tom Shelly, White God
n***@columbus.rr.com
2003-09-28 18:03:51 UTC
Permalink
California has been "owned" by hundreds of different peoples over thousands
of years of unwritten history, just like every square inch of this world.

So don't feed me that "politically correct" bull shit about the bad white
race and the poor, poor minorities.

You want to join the filthy Mexicans and become one of their sewer city
states?
Go. We sure as hell won't miss you or your fantastic debt.
Post by unknown
Post by torresD
La Raza is home, in California and Texas.
California and Texas were owned by Mexico
and the Mexicans have taken it back.
And they were "owned" by the Indians before that. So maybe the
tribes should "take it back" too.
No wonder Cruz Bustamante plays nice with the Indians.
Post by torresD
Post by Jaberwokie
la Raza go home!
Post by J R-S
Excuse me sir...
Do you know what California means? Well, just so happens that Cali
means
Post by Jaberwokie
Post by J R-S
gold and fornia stands for land of..
Yes, California was the "Land of Gold" founded by Spaniards a long time
ago.
Post by Jaberwokie
Post by J R-S
Just so happens that besides native americans to whom that land really
belongs to, the spaniard descendants are the true owner because they
mixed
Post by Jaberwokie
Post by J R-S
with the indians. They even brought the horses to the wild-wild west
brainless pig!
So, if there is an inmigrant in California, that person speaks English.
Same thing applies to Texas, Nevada(Snow Storm), Nuevo México (New
Mexico),
Post by Jaberwokie
Post by J R-S
Arizona (Arid Zone), Oregón (Adams-Onis Treaty cedes Spain's discovery
rights north of 42 degrees to the U. S), Luisiana (Luis and Ann),
Florida
Post by Jaberwokie
Post by J R-S
(Blossom), and half of the US of A.
Give California and Texas back to the Mexicans and lets see how poor
that
Post by Jaberwokie
Post by J R-S
country is and how rich the US of A will be.
Mexicans, Chicanos and people of spanish descent are not the inmigrants,
anglos are...
jrs
"Tom Shelly, Legendary White God"
Post by Tom Shelly, Legendary White God
Post by torresD
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
Gee...do you think the statistics have anything to do with the massive
immigration this country has experienced in the last two decades?
Gee...just maybe your statistics are bullshit, huh?
In my State alone, California, immigration has accounted for over 90%
of the population increase here. That's right 90% over the last ten
years.
Now, with all those dumb assed, poor Mexicans coming in, don't you
think the gap would increase between 'rich and poor'? Duh..
And by the way, 100K or more a year is not rich, it's just someone who
works hard to provide for his family.
Tom Shelly, White God
torresD
2003-09-29 00:51:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@columbus.rr.com
You want to join the filthy Mexicans
and become one of their sewer city
states?
Those Americans, especially those that were formerly employed
in the manufacturing sector, may soon have to learn Español
and move to Mexico if they want to work.

What if the Mexicans greeted the influx of job seeking
Americans just like the Americans have treated the Mexicans?

If you want to work in an American factory,
Mexico is the place to go.

Computer jobs, telemarketing jobs are leaving for INDIA.

The shoe may soon be on the other foot.
Observador
2003-09-28 01:25:27 UTC
Permalink
The quality of life and living standards are reflected by the race of the people
in an area. My next question is a perfect example of what I mean. YOU the reader
idenfy the ethnicity of an area as described: Exhorbitatn incidents of crime and violence,
High Unemployment, homlessness, teen pregnancy, low quality of life, school dropouts,
malicious street gangs, filty, unkempt.
I dont think you will find the above conditions in a WASP, Jewish, Korean/Chinese
neighborhoods. But they are the prevelant conditions in the__________________
comunities.
Post by torresD
La Raza is home, in California and Texas.
California and Texas were owned by Mexico
and the Mexicans have taken it back.
Post by Jaberwokie
la Raza go home!
Post by J R-S
Excuse me sir...
Do you know what California means? Well, just so happens that Cali
means
Post by Jaberwokie
Post by J R-S
gold and fornia stands for land of..
Yes, California was the "Land of Gold" founded by Spaniards a long time
ago.
Post by Jaberwokie
Post by J R-S
Just so happens that besides native americans to whom that land really
belongs to, the spaniard descendants are the true owner because they
mixed
Post by Jaberwokie
Post by J R-S
with the indians. They even brought the horses to the wild-wild west
brainless pig!
So, if there is an inmigrant in California, that person speaks English.
Same thing applies to Texas, Nevada(Snow Storm), Nuevo México (New
Mexico),
Post by Jaberwokie
Post by J R-S
Arizona (Arid Zone), Oregón (Adams-Onis Treaty cedes Spain's discovery
rights north of 42 degrees to the U. S), Luisiana (Luis and Ann),
Florida
Post by Jaberwokie
Post by J R-S
(Blossom), and half of the US of A.
Give California and Texas back to the Mexicans and lets see how poor
that
Post by Jaberwokie
Post by J R-S
country is and how rich the US of A will be.
Mexicans, Chicanos and people of spanish descent are not the inmigrants,
anglos are...
jrs
Post by Tom Shelly, Legendary White God
Post by torresD
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
Gee...do you think the statistics have anything to do with the massive
immigration this country has experienced in the last two decades?
Gee...just maybe your statistics are bullshit, huh?
In my State alone, California, immigration has accounted for over 90%
of the population increase here. That's right 90% over the last ten
years.
Now, with all those dumb assed, poor Mexicans coming in, don't you
think the gap would increase between 'rich and poor'? Duh..
And by the way, 100K or more a year is not rich, it's just someone who
works hard to provide for his family.
Tom Shelly, White God
J R-S
2003-09-28 02:15:38 UTC
Permalink
Hey you fool, what about the Apalachians, Utah, Idaho and every single
trailer park in the USA.
Catch a glimpse of Jerry Springer, you'll know what I am talking about.

BTW, how is life of food cupons, lol

jrs
Post by Observador
The quality of life and living standards are reflected by the race of the people
in an area. My next question is a perfect example of what I mean. YOU the reader
idenfy the ethnicity of an area as described: Exhorbitatn incidents of crime and violence,
High Unemployment, homlessness, teen pregnancy, low quality of life, school dropouts,
malicious street gangs, filty, unkempt.
I dont think you will find the above conditions in a WASP, Jewish, Korean/Chinese
neighborhoods. But they are the prevelant conditions in
the__________________
Post by Observador
comunities.
Post by torresD
La Raza is home, in California and Texas.
California and Texas were owned by Mexico
and the Mexicans have taken it back.
Post by Jaberwokie
la Raza go home!
Post by J R-S
Excuse me sir...
Do you know what California means? Well, just so happens that Cali
means
Post by Jaberwokie
Post by J R-S
gold and fornia stands for land of..
Yes, California was the "Land of Gold" founded by Spaniards a long time
ago.
Post by Jaberwokie
Post by J R-S
Just so happens that besides native americans to whom that land really
belongs to, the spaniard descendants are the true owner because they
mixed
Post by Jaberwokie
Post by J R-S
with the indians. They even brought the horses to the wild-wild west
brainless pig!
So, if there is an inmigrant in California, that person speaks English.
Same thing applies to Texas, Nevada(Snow Storm), Nuevo México (New
Mexico),
Post by Jaberwokie
Post by J R-S
Arizona (Arid Zone), Oregón (Adams-Onis Treaty cedes Spain's discovery
rights north of 42 degrees to the U. S), Luisiana (Luis and Ann),
Florida
Post by Jaberwokie
Post by J R-S
(Blossom), and half of the US of A.
Give California and Texas back to the Mexicans and lets see how poor
that
Post by Jaberwokie
Post by J R-S
country is and how rich the US of A will be.
Mexicans, Chicanos and people of spanish descent are not the inmigrants,
anglos are...
jrs
"Tom Shelly, Legendary White God"
Post by Tom Shelly, Legendary White God
Post by torresD
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
Gee...do you think the statistics have anything to do with the massive
immigration this country has experienced in the last two decades?
Gee...just maybe your statistics are bullshit, huh?
In my State alone, California, immigration has accounted for over 90%
of the population increase here. That's right 90% over the last ten
years.
Now, with all those dumb assed, poor Mexicans coming in, don't you
think the gap would increase between 'rich and poor'? Duh..
And by the way, 100K or more a year is not rich, it's just someone who
works hard to provide for his family.
Tom Shelly, White God
Ruhig
2003-09-28 03:43:01 UTC
Permalink
Racist bitch!
J R-S
2003-09-28 02:13:50 UTC
Permalink
California is home to La Raza you fool.

Now, isn't it better, Yanqui go home?

jrs
Post by Jaberwokie
la Raza go home!
Post by J R-S
Excuse me sir...
Do you know what California means? Well, just so happens that Cali means
gold and fornia stands for land of..
Yes, California was the "Land of Gold" founded by Spaniards a long time ago.
Just so happens that besides native americans to whom that land really
belongs to, the spaniard descendants are the true owner because they mixed
with the indians. They even brought the horses to the wild-wild west
brainless pig!
So, if there is an inmigrant in California, that person speaks English.
Same thing applies to Texas, Nevada(Snow Storm), Nuevo México (New Mexico),
Arizona (Arid Zone), Oregón (Adams-Onis Treaty cedes Spain's discovery
rights north of 42 degrees to the U. S), Luisiana (Luis and Ann), Florida
(Blossom), and half of the US of A.
Give California and Texas back to the Mexicans and lets see how poor that
country is and how rich the US of A will be.
Mexicans, Chicanos and people of spanish descent are not the inmigrants,
anglos are...
jrs
Post by Tom Shelly, Legendary White God
Post by torresD
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
Gee...do you think the statistics have anything to do with the massive
immigration this country has experienced in the last two decades?
Gee...just maybe your statistics are bullshit, huh?
In my State alone, California, immigration has accounted for over 90%
of the population increase here. That's right 90% over the last ten
years.
Now, with all those dumb assed, poor Mexicans coming in, don't you
think the gap would increase between 'rich and poor'? Duh..
And by the way, 100K or more a year is not rich, it's just someone who
works hard to provide for his family.
Tom Shelly, White God
Super Duty
2003-09-28 01:40:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by J R-S
Excuse me sir...
Do you know what California means? Well, just so happens that Cali means
gold and fornia stands for land of..
Yes, California was the "Land of Gold" founded by Spaniards a long time ago.
Just so happens that besides native americans to whom that land really
belongs to, the spaniard descendants are the true owner because they mixed
with the indians. They even brought the horses to the wild-wild west
brainless pig!
So, if there is an inmigrant in California, that person speaks English.
Same thing applies to Texas, Nevada(Snow Storm), Nuevo México (New Mexico),
Arizona (Arid Zone), Oregón (Adams-Onis Treaty cedes Spain's discovery
rights north of 42 degrees to the U. S), Luisiana (Luis and Ann), Florida
(Blossom), and half of the US of A.
Give California and Texas back to the Mexicans and lets see how poor that
country is and how rich the US of A will be.
Mexicans, Chicanos and people of spanish descent are not the inmigrants,
anglos are...
jrs
-------------------------

Amigo Jaime Rivera Sierra,

You are so full of sheeeeeeeeeet!

California:

- like El Dorado, Quivira, and The Seven Cities of Cibola, was the name of
one of the utopias which originated in the imagination of the people after
the discovery of America had revived the age-old dream of a paradise on
earth. The mythical realm was apparently created by the Spanish writer
Montalvo in the romance Las Sergas de Esplandián (the exploits of
Esplandian) and endowed with beautiful black Amazons, gold and pearls. The
name is a fanciful creation; none of the many explanations of the meaning of
California can be substantiated. Golfo de la California and Cabo California
appear on maps of 1562. In 1569 the name was applied to the peninsula of
what is now Lower California; on later maps it was often extended to include
the entire Pacific coast. From 1769 to 1846 the area which approximately
included in the present state was termed Alta (upper), or Nuevo (new),
California.

Arizona:

- Historians disagree about the meaning and derivation of the place name
Arizona. What is now southern Arizona and northern México was known by the
Spanish as the Pimería Alta, or Upper Pima Country after the natives of the
area whom the Spanish called Pima. Within this area was a district in what
is now southern Pima Co., AZ and northern Sonora, México that the Spanish
called Arizonac, Arissona or Arizona.

James H. McClintock in Arizona, Prehistoric, Aboriginal, Pioneer, Modern:
The Nation's Youngest Commonwealth within a Land of Ancient Culture
(Chicago: The S. J. Clarke Publishing Co., 1916) and in other works noted
that the name was probably derived from a native place name that sounded
like Aleh-zon or Ali-Shonak which meant small spring or place of the small
spring. This place is believed to have been south of the international
border in Sonora, México near a place called Banera eight miles west of Old
Sásabe. It is believed to have been a station of the Sáric mission
destroyed in the late 1700's by the Spanish.

Louisiana:

- In 1682-Robert Cavelier, Sieur de La Salle and Henri de Tonti who were
living in Canada, decided to explore the Mississippi River accompanied by
fifty-four French and Indians. When they reached the mouth of the river, La
Salle planted a wooden cross in the ground and took possession of the
territory in the name of Louis XIV of France. He called it Louisiane, land
of Louis.

Oregon:

- Byram and Lewis say "Ourigan" is a Cree Indian pronunciation of "ooligan,"
a word used across the Northwest Coast for a small, smelt-like fish whose
oil, or grease, continues to be very important to Indian people. In the
1700s a vast network of ooligan "grease trails" stretched from Alaska to the
Fraser River, even crossing the northern Rockies. These trade pathways
carried ooligan to many people speaking many languages, which the
researchers say resulted in at least 30 documented spellings and
pronunciations of the word.

Lewis says that the ooligan-Oregon connection is fitting.

"The Indians of the Northwest were known for their great wealth, and
nutritious ooligan oil was one of their most valued trade goods," he says.
"Some of the greatest potlatch ceremonies were ooligan 'grease feasts,' and
ooligan also was a medicine. The Gitksan people call ooligan 'ha la mootxw,'
which means, 'for curing humanity'."

For centuries before European colonists reached the Pacific, Indians east of
the Rockies traveled great distances to trade for Northwest people's
riches--of which one of the most sought after was ooligan grease. It most
likely was the Western Cree Indians who told British representatives at the
Great Lakes of the canoe route and trail to the River Ourigan, via Lake
Winnipeg and the Saskatchewan River.

The writer Jonathan Carver is credited with later changing the name to
"Oregon," which first appeared in his "Travels Through the Interior Part of
North America" in 1778. By the time Thomas Jefferson sent Meriwether Lewis
and William Clark to find a water route to the west, cartographers were
using the name Oregon for the Columbia River.

Lewis and Clark didn't follow the original trail to the River Ourigan, but
as they wintered on the Columbia, they did consume plenty of ooligan, a type
of smelt, which they bought from the Clatsop Indians. Here they also heard
several other words from the Chinook jargon trade language, which enabled
trade between tribes across vast regions.

Byram and Lewis say that their experience working with Northwest Indian
tribes made this discovery possible. Lewis is a member of the Confederated
Tribes of Grand Ronde, and Byram works with the Coquille Tribe and other
Indian communities. Both are in the UO anthropology doctoral program, in
which they have helped build a Northwest Indian heritage archive at the
Knight Library.

"Our research is controversial," says Byram. "Until now, historians have
sought the meaning of Oregon in the continental U.S., mostly from European
sources, but the earliest records show that Oregon was an Indian name for a
large river west of the Rockies and north of the Columbia."

Byram and Lewis say they'll need to do more research to convince some of
their colleagues of the indigenous origin of this important place name. Yet
their findings and techniques already are drawing the attention of other
researchers and tribal members who see great value in the study of
traditional Indian geography and tribal oral history.

"Some of the best sources on Northwest history have been disregarded because
researchers haven't seen the value of tribal oral history," says Lewis. "As
Indians become more involved in this research, we're going to see a big
change in how we understand and appreciate Northwest history."

Marianne Keddington-Lang, editor of the Oregon Historical Quarterly, says
that Byram and Lewis "have taken a new approach and applied a broader
context to a topic that has been researched many times before. They have
enlarged the discussion, but probably haven't answered the question
definitively. I don't think anyone will be able to do that for a while--if
ever."
********************************
********************************
Now amigo Jaime, who the fuck are the Mexicans? Descendants of the
Spaniards? A Spanish mix with Indians? Tell me amigo, who the fuck are the
Mexicans? The Spaniards were the conquistadores, conquerors of who? Did
they conquer the Mexicans? Who were the Mexicans before the Spaniards got
to what is now Central America? I could go on and on amigo, but you are
better off sticking with your sea food (marine sciences).

If the Mexicans had Texas and California, those places would be big pig stys
just like the rest of Latin American is today. It would be ruled by tin
horn dictators.

Sorry amigo, but you have a lot of sheeeet for brains.
J R-S
2003-09-28 03:03:02 UTC
Permalink
OK, I am full of sheeet, you are full of shiiiiitttt

I don't have enough time to teach you something this time. The only thing
that I am going to say is that etymology is something you should have taken
in college if you ever went to it.

It was typical of Spaniards to name cities with their must important
resources name. Sometimes they names more than one with the same name.

They not only names California as their land of gold they also named Cali
Colombia with that name. Guess what, there was a lot of gold there too.

The origin of the word Cali, I was told that it was Inca or Aztec. Makes no
different now. The fact is that it was Hispanic and still is.
Just that Anglos and white wannabis like you forgot who the land belonged to

As far as Arizona. Well brainless scum, Zona is a Spanish word and Arida is
another Spanish word. If you use them together they from the phrase Zona
Árida or Arizona. Is Arizona an arid zone? Yes it is...
Just that Anglos and white wannabis like you forgot who the land belonged to

Your stupidity goes even farther.

Did you know that Louisiana belong to the Spaniards before than to the
French?
http://www.state.la.us/about_history2.htm
Just that Anglos and white wannabis like you forgot who the land belonged to

Oregon was first colonized by Spaniards
http://bluebook.state.or.us/cultural/history/chron01.htm
Just that Anglos and white wannabis like you forgot who the land belonged to

I can go on and on making a fool out of yourself but with two history
lessons is enough. You don't deserve more time than that.

As you can see, half of the US of A belonged to Hispanics and was taken
either by force of by cheating. The most richest parts too. The Mexicans
are just claiming it back. BTW, did you hear that Hispanics are more than
blacks now? Yeap, we are a bigger minority now. Still a minority but have
more political power than your people now. You were brought here as slaves,
Hispanics came here as conquistadors...

jrs
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
Excuse me sir...
Do you know what California means? Well, just so happens that Cali means
gold and fornia stands for land of..
Yes, California was the "Land of Gold" founded by Spaniards a long time
ago.
Post by J R-S
Just so happens that besides native americans to whom that land really
belongs to, the spaniard descendants are the true owner because they mixed
with the indians. They even brought the horses to the wild-wild west
brainless pig!
So, if there is an inmigrant in California, that person speaks English.
Same thing applies to Texas, Nevada(Snow Storm), Nuevo México (New
Mexico),
Post by J R-S
Arizona (Arid Zone), Oregón (Adams-Onis Treaty cedes Spain's discovery
rights north of 42 degrees to the U. S), Luisiana (Luis and Ann), Florida
(Blossom), and half of the US of A.
Give California and Texas back to the Mexicans and lets see how poor that
country is and how rich the US of A will be.
Mexicans, Chicanos and people of spanish descent are not the inmigrants,
anglos are...
jrs
-------------------------
Amigo Jaime Rivera Sierra,
You are so full of sheeeeeeeeeet!
- like El Dorado, Quivira, and The Seven Cities of Cibola, was the name of
one of the utopias which originated in the imagination of the people after
the discovery of America had revived the age-old dream of a paradise on
earth. The mythical realm was apparently created by the Spanish writer
Montalvo in the romance Las Sergas de Esplandián (the exploits of
Esplandian) and endowed with beautiful black Amazons, gold and pearls. The
name is a fanciful creation; none of the many explanations of the meaning of
California can be substantiated. Golfo de la California and Cabo California
appear on maps of 1562. In 1569 the name was applied to the peninsula of
what is now Lower California; on later maps it was often extended to include
the entire Pacific coast. From 1769 to 1846 the area which approximately
included in the present state was termed Alta (upper), or Nuevo (new),
California.
- Historians disagree about the meaning and derivation of the place name
Arizona. What is now southern Arizona and northern México was known by the
Spanish as the Pimería Alta, or Upper Pima Country after the natives of the
area whom the Spanish called Pima. Within this area was a district in what
is now southern Pima Co., AZ and northern Sonora, México that the Spanish
called Arizonac, Arissona or Arizona.
The Nation's Youngest Commonwealth within a Land of Ancient Culture
(Chicago: The S. J. Clarke Publishing Co., 1916) and in other works noted
that the name was probably derived from a native place name that sounded
like Aleh-zon or Ali-Shonak which meant small spring or place of the small
spring. This place is believed to have been south of the international
border in Sonora, México near a place called Banera eight miles west of Old
Sásabe. It is believed to have been a station of the Sáric mission
destroyed in the late 1700's by the Spanish.
- In 1682-Robert Cavelier, Sieur de La Salle and Henri de Tonti who were
living in Canada, decided to explore the Mississippi River accompanied by
fifty-four French and Indians. When they reached the mouth of the river, La
Salle planted a wooden cross in the ground and took possession of the
territory in the name of Louis XIV of France. He called it Louisiane, land
of Louis.
- Byram and Lewis say "Ourigan" is a Cree Indian pronunciation of "ooligan,"
a word used across the Northwest Coast for a small, smelt-like fish whose
oil, or grease, continues to be very important to Indian people. In the
1700s a vast network of ooligan "grease trails" stretched from Alaska to the
Fraser River, even crossing the northern Rockies. These trade pathways
carried ooligan to many people speaking many languages, which the
researchers say resulted in at least 30 documented spellings and
pronunciations of the word.
Lewis says that the ooligan-Oregon connection is fitting.
"The Indians of the Northwest were known for their great wealth, and
nutritious ooligan oil was one of their most valued trade goods," he says.
"Some of the greatest potlatch ceremonies were ooligan 'grease feasts,' and
ooligan also was a medicine. The Gitksan people call ooligan 'ha la mootxw,'
which means, 'for curing humanity'."
For centuries before European colonists reached the Pacific, Indians east of
the Rockies traveled great distances to trade for Northwest people's
riches--of which one of the most sought after was ooligan grease. It most
likely was the Western Cree Indians who told British representatives at the
Great Lakes of the canoe route and trail to the River Ourigan, via Lake
Winnipeg and the Saskatchewan River.
The writer Jonathan Carver is credited with later changing the name to
"Oregon," which first appeared in his "Travels Through the Interior Part of
North America" in 1778. By the time Thomas Jefferson sent Meriwether Lewis
and William Clark to find a water route to the west, cartographers were
using the name Oregon for the Columbia River.
Lewis and Clark didn't follow the original trail to the River Ourigan, but
as they wintered on the Columbia, they did consume plenty of ooligan, a type
of smelt, which they bought from the Clatsop Indians. Here they also heard
several other words from the Chinook jargon trade language, which enabled
trade between tribes across vast regions.
Byram and Lewis say that their experience working with Northwest Indian
tribes made this discovery possible. Lewis is a member of the Confederated
Tribes of Grand Ronde, and Byram works with the Coquille Tribe and other
Indian communities. Both are in the UO anthropology doctoral program, in
which they have helped build a Northwest Indian heritage archive at the
Knight Library.
"Our research is controversial," says Byram. "Until now, historians have
sought the meaning of Oregon in the continental U.S., mostly from European
sources, but the earliest records show that Oregon was an Indian name for a
large river west of the Rockies and north of the Columbia."
Byram and Lewis say they'll need to do more research to convince some of
their colleagues of the indigenous origin of this important place name. Yet
their findings and techniques already are drawing the attention of other
researchers and tribal members who see great value in the study of
traditional Indian geography and tribal oral history.
"Some of the best sources on Northwest history have been disregarded because
researchers haven't seen the value of tribal oral history," says Lewis. "As
Indians become more involved in this research, we're going to see a big
change in how we understand and appreciate Northwest history."
Marianne Keddington-Lang, editor of the Oregon Historical Quarterly, says
that Byram and Lewis "have taken a new approach and applied a broader
context to a topic that has been researched many times before. They have
enlarged the discussion, but probably haven't answered the question
definitively. I don't think anyone will be able to do that for a while--if
ever."
********************************
********************************
Now amigo Jaime, who the fuck are the Mexicans? Descendants of the
Spaniards? A Spanish mix with Indians? Tell me amigo, who the fuck are the
Mexicans? The Spaniards were the conquistadores, conquerors of who? Did
they conquer the Mexicans? Who were the Mexicans before the Spaniards got
to what is now Central America? I could go on and on amigo, but you are
better off sticking with your sea food (marine sciences).
If the Mexicans had Texas and California, those places would be big pig stys
just like the rest of Latin American is today. It would be ruled by tin
horn dictators.
Sorry amigo, but you have a lot of sheeeet for brains.
pedro martori
2003-09-28 06:08:51 UTC
Permalink
ja, ja, what an argument...!
if the europeans would go back 2000 yrs. then the italians could claim that
it all belonged to Julius Ceasar...or the Roman Empire...
an we could go over the entire planet ...looking for all those lands that
BEFORE belonged to other nations and people...
now ...shit head...try to reconquer that southwest of the USA for you
all ...see if you can...!
Post by J R-S
OK, I am full of sheeet, you are full of shiiiiitttt
I don't have enough time to teach you something this time. The only thing
that I am going to say is that etymology is something you should have taken
in college if you ever went to it.
It was typical of Spaniards to name cities with their must important
resources name. Sometimes they names more than one with the same name.
They not only names California as their land of gold they also named Cali
Colombia with that name. Guess what, there was a lot of gold there too.
The origin of the word Cali, I was told that it was Inca or Aztec. Makes no
different now. The fact is that it was Hispanic and still is.
Just that Anglos and white wannabis like you forgot who the land belonged to
As far as Arizona. Well brainless scum, Zona is a Spanish word and Arida is
another Spanish word. If you use them together they from the phrase Zona
Árida or Arizona. Is Arizona an arid zone? Yes it is...
Just that Anglos and white wannabis like you forgot who the land belonged to
Your stupidity goes even farther.
Did you know that Louisiana belong to the Spaniards before than to the
French?
http://www.state.la.us/about_history2.htm
Just that Anglos and white wannabis like you forgot who the land belonged to
Oregon was first colonized by Spaniards
http://bluebook.state.or.us/cultural/history/chron01.htm
Just that Anglos and white wannabis like you forgot who the land belonged to
I can go on and on making a fool out of yourself but with two history
lessons is enough. You don't deserve more time than that.
As you can see, half of the US of A belonged to Hispanics and was taken
either by force of by cheating. The most richest parts too. The Mexicans
are just claiming it back. BTW, did you hear that Hispanics are more than
blacks now? Yeap, we are a bigger minority now. Still a minority but have
more political power than your people now. You were brought here as slaves,
Hispanics came here as conquistadors...
jrs
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
Excuse me sir...
Do you know what California means? Well, just so happens that Cali
means
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
gold and fornia stands for land of..
Yes, California was the "Land of Gold" founded by Spaniards a long time
ago.
Post by J R-S
Just so happens that besides native americans to whom that land really
belongs to, the spaniard descendants are the true owner because they
mixed
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
with the indians. They even brought the horses to the wild-wild west
brainless pig!
So, if there is an inmigrant in California, that person speaks English.
Same thing applies to Texas, Nevada(Snow Storm), Nuevo México (New
Mexico),
Post by J R-S
Arizona (Arid Zone), Oregón (Adams-Onis Treaty cedes Spain's discovery
rights north of 42 degrees to the U. S), Luisiana (Luis and Ann),
Florida
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
(Blossom), and half of the US of A.
Give California and Texas back to the Mexicans and lets see how poor
that
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
country is and how rich the US of A will be.
Mexicans, Chicanos and people of spanish descent are not the inmigrants,
anglos are...
jrs
-------------------------
Amigo Jaime Rivera Sierra,
You are so full of sheeeeeeeeeet!
- like El Dorado, Quivira, and The Seven Cities of Cibola, was the name of
one of the utopias which originated in the imagination of the people after
the discovery of America had revived the age-old dream of a paradise on
earth. The mythical realm was apparently created by the Spanish writer
Montalvo in the romance Las Sergas de Esplandián (the exploits of
Esplandian) and endowed with beautiful black Amazons, gold and pearls. The
name is a fanciful creation; none of the many explanations of the
meaning
Post by J R-S
of
Post by J R-S
California can be substantiated. Golfo de la California and Cabo
California
Post by J R-S
appear on maps of 1562. In 1569 the name was applied to the peninsula of
what is now Lower California; on later maps it was often extended to
include
Post by J R-S
the entire Pacific coast. From 1769 to 1846 the area which approximately
included in the present state was termed Alta (upper), or Nuevo (new),
California.
- Historians disagree about the meaning and derivation of the place name
Arizona. What is now southern Arizona and northern México was known by
the
Post by J R-S
Spanish as the Pimería Alta, or Upper Pima Country after the natives of
the
Post by J R-S
area whom the Spanish called Pima. Within this area was a district in
what
Post by J R-S
is now southern Pima Co., AZ and northern Sonora, México that the Spanish
called Arizonac, Arissona or Arizona.
The Nation's Youngest Commonwealth within a Land of Ancient Culture
(Chicago: The S. J. Clarke Publishing Co., 1916) and in other works noted
that the name was probably derived from a native place name that sounded
like Aleh-zon or Ali-Shonak which meant small spring or place of the small
spring. This place is believed to have been south of the international
border in Sonora, México near a place called Banera eight miles west of
Old
Post by J R-S
Sásabe. It is believed to have been a station of the Sáric mission
destroyed in the late 1700's by the Spanish.
- In 1682-Robert Cavelier, Sieur de La Salle and Henri de Tonti who were
living in Canada, decided to explore the Mississippi River accompanied by
fifty-four French and Indians. When they reached the mouth of the river,
La
Post by J R-S
Salle planted a wooden cross in the ground and took possession of the
territory in the name of Louis XIV of France. He called it Louisiane, land
of Louis.
- Byram and Lewis say "Ourigan" is a Cree Indian pronunciation of
"ooligan,"
Post by J R-S
a word used across the Northwest Coast for a small, smelt-like fish whose
oil, or grease, continues to be very important to Indian people. In the
1700s a vast network of ooligan "grease trails" stretched from Alaska to
the
Post by J R-S
Fraser River, even crossing the northern Rockies. These trade pathways
carried ooligan to many people speaking many languages, which the
researchers say resulted in at least 30 documented spellings and
pronunciations of the word.
Lewis says that the ooligan-Oregon connection is fitting.
"The Indians of the Northwest were known for their great wealth, and
nutritious ooligan oil was one of their most valued trade goods," he says.
"Some of the greatest potlatch ceremonies were ooligan 'grease feasts,'
and
Post by J R-S
ooligan also was a medicine. The Gitksan people call ooligan 'ha la
mootxw,'
Post by J R-S
which means, 'for curing humanity'."
For centuries before European colonists reached the Pacific, Indians
east
Post by J R-S
of
Post by J R-S
the Rockies traveled great distances to trade for Northwest people's
riches--of which one of the most sought after was ooligan grease. It most
likely was the Western Cree Indians who told British representatives at
the
Post by J R-S
Great Lakes of the canoe route and trail to the River Ourigan, via Lake
Winnipeg and the Saskatchewan River.
The writer Jonathan Carver is credited with later changing the name to
"Oregon," which first appeared in his "Travels Through the Interior Part
of
Post by J R-S
North America" in 1778. By the time Thomas Jefferson sent Meriwether Lewis
and William Clark to find a water route to the west, cartographers were
using the name Oregon for the Columbia River.
Lewis and Clark didn't follow the original trail to the River Ourigan, but
as they wintered on the Columbia, they did consume plenty of ooligan, a
type
Post by J R-S
of smelt, which they bought from the Clatsop Indians. Here they also heard
several other words from the Chinook jargon trade language, which enabled
trade between tribes across vast regions.
Byram and Lewis say that their experience working with Northwest Indian
tribes made this discovery possible. Lewis is a member of the Confederated
Tribes of Grand Ronde, and Byram works with the Coquille Tribe and other
Indian communities. Both are in the UO anthropology doctoral program, in
which they have helped build a Northwest Indian heritage archive at the
Knight Library.
"Our research is controversial," says Byram. "Until now, historians have
sought the meaning of Oregon in the continental U.S., mostly from European
sources, but the earliest records show that Oregon was an Indian name
for
Post by J R-S
a
Post by J R-S
large river west of the Rockies and north of the Columbia."
Byram and Lewis say they'll need to do more research to convince some of
their colleagues of the indigenous origin of this important place name.
Yet
Post by J R-S
their findings and techniques already are drawing the attention of other
researchers and tribal members who see great value in the study of
traditional Indian geography and tribal oral history.
"Some of the best sources on Northwest history have been disregarded
because
Post by J R-S
researchers haven't seen the value of tribal oral history," says Lewis.
"As
Post by J R-S
Indians become more involved in this research, we're going to see a big
change in how we understand and appreciate Northwest history."
Marianne Keddington-Lang, editor of the Oregon Historical Quarterly, says
that Byram and Lewis "have taken a new approach and applied a broader
context to a topic that has been researched many times before. They have
enlarged the discussion, but probably haven't answered the question
definitively. I don't think anyone will be able to do that for a while--if
ever."
********************************
********************************
Now amigo Jaime, who the fuck are the Mexicans? Descendants of the
Spaniards? A Spanish mix with Indians? Tell me amigo, who the fuck are
the
Post by J R-S
Mexicans? The Spaniards were the conquistadores, conquerors of who?
Did
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
they conquer the Mexicans? Who were the Mexicans before the Spaniards got
to what is now Central America? I could go on and on amigo, but you are
better off sticking with your sea food (marine sciences).
If the Mexicans had Texas and California, those places would be big pig
stys
Post by J R-S
just like the rest of Latin American is today. It would be ruled by tin
horn dictators.
Sorry amigo, but you have a lot of sheeeet for brains.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.520 / Virus Database: 318 - Release Date: 9/19/2003
J R-S
2003-09-28 12:48:52 UTC
Permalink
Not me, Mexicans are doing just that, lol

jrs
Post by pedro martori
ja, ja, what an argument...!
if the europeans would go back 2000 yrs. then the italians could claim that
it all belonged to Julius Ceasar...or the Roman Empire...
an we could go over the entire planet ...looking for all those lands that
BEFORE belonged to other nations and people...
now ...shit head...try to reconquer that southwest of the USA for you
all ...see if you can...!
Post by J R-S
OK, I am full of sheeet, you are full of shiiiiitttt
I don't have enough time to teach you something this time. The only thing
that I am going to say is that etymology is something you should have
taken
Post by J R-S
in college if you ever went to it.
It was typical of Spaniards to name cities with their must important
resources name. Sometimes they names more than one with the same name.
They not only names California as their land of gold they also named Cali
Colombia with that name. Guess what, there was a lot of gold there too.
The origin of the word Cali, I was told that it was Inca or Aztec.
Makes
Post by pedro martori
no
Post by J R-S
different now. The fact is that it was Hispanic and still is.
Just that Anglos and white wannabis like you forgot who the land
belonged
Post by pedro martori
to
Post by J R-S
As far as Arizona. Well brainless scum, Zona is a Spanish word and
Arida
Post by pedro martori
is
Post by J R-S
another Spanish word. If you use them together they from the phrase Zona
Árida or Arizona. Is Arizona an arid zone? Yes it is...
Just that Anglos and white wannabis like you forgot who the land
belonged
Post by pedro martori
to
Post by J R-S
Your stupidity goes even farther.
Did you know that Louisiana belong to the Spaniards before than to the
French?
http://www.state.la.us/about_history2.htm
Just that Anglos and white wannabis like you forgot who the land
belonged
Post by pedro martori
to
Post by J R-S
Oregon was first colonized by Spaniards
http://bluebook.state.or.us/cultural/history/chron01.htm
Just that Anglos and white wannabis like you forgot who the land
belonged
Post by pedro martori
to
Post by J R-S
I can go on and on making a fool out of yourself but with two history
lessons is enough. You don't deserve more time than that.
As you can see, half of the US of A belonged to Hispanics and was taken
either by force of by cheating. The most richest parts too. The Mexicans
are just claiming it back. BTW, did you hear that Hispanics are more than
blacks now? Yeap, we are a bigger minority now. Still a minority but
have
Post by J R-S
more political power than your people now. You were brought here as
slaves,
Post by J R-S
Hispanics came here as conquistadors...
jrs
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
Excuse me sir...
Do you know what California means? Well, just so happens that Cali
means
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
gold and fornia stands for land of..
Yes, California was the "Land of Gold" founded by Spaniards a long
time
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
ago.
Post by J R-S
Just so happens that besides native americans to whom that land really
belongs to, the spaniard descendants are the true owner because they
mixed
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
with the indians. They even brought the horses to the wild-wild west
brainless pig!
So, if there is an inmigrant in California, that person speaks
English.
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
Same thing applies to Texas, Nevada(Snow Storm), Nuevo México (New
Mexico),
Post by J R-S
Arizona (Arid Zone), Oregón (Adams-Onis Treaty cedes Spain's discovery
rights north of 42 degrees to the U. S), Luisiana (Luis and Ann),
Florida
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
(Blossom), and half of the US of A.
Give California and Texas back to the Mexicans and lets see how poor
that
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
country is and how rich the US of A will be.
Mexicans, Chicanos and people of spanish descent are not the
inmigrants,
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
anglos are...
jrs
-------------------------
Amigo Jaime Rivera Sierra,
You are so full of sheeeeeeeeeet!
- like El Dorado, Quivira, and The Seven Cities of Cibola, was the
name
Post by pedro martori
of
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
one of the utopias which originated in the imagination of the people
after
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
the discovery of America had revived the age-old dream of a paradise on
earth. The mythical realm was apparently created by the Spanish writer
Montalvo in the romance Las Sergas de Esplandián (the exploits of
Esplandian) and endowed with beautiful black Amazons, gold and pearls.
The
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
name is a fanciful creation; none of the many explanations of the
meaning
Post by J R-S
of
Post by J R-S
California can be substantiated. Golfo de la California and Cabo
California
Post by J R-S
appear on maps of 1562. In 1569 the name was applied to the peninsula of
what is now Lower California; on later maps it was often extended to
include
Post by J R-S
the entire Pacific coast. From 1769 to 1846 the area which
approximately
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
included in the present state was termed Alta (upper), or Nuevo (new),
California.
- Historians disagree about the meaning and derivation of the place name
Arizona. What is now southern Arizona and northern México was known by
the
Post by J R-S
Spanish as the Pimería Alta, or Upper Pima Country after the natives of
the
Post by J R-S
area whom the Spanish called Pima. Within this area was a district in
what
Post by J R-S
is now southern Pima Co., AZ and northern Sonora, México that the
Spanish
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
called Arizonac, Arissona or Arizona.
James H. McClintock in Arizona, Prehistoric, Aboriginal, Pioneer,
The Nation's Youngest Commonwealth within a Land of Ancient Culture
(Chicago: The S. J. Clarke Publishing Co., 1916) and in other works
noted
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
that the name was probably derived from a native place name that sounded
like Aleh-zon or Ali-Shonak which meant small spring or place of the
small
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
spring. This place is believed to have been south of the
international
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
border in Sonora, México near a place called Banera eight miles west of
Old
Post by J R-S
Sásabe. It is believed to have been a station of the Sáric mission
destroyed in the late 1700's by the Spanish.
- In 1682-Robert Cavelier, Sieur de La Salle and Henri de Tonti who were
living in Canada, decided to explore the Mississippi River accompanied
by
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
fifty-four French and Indians. When they reached the mouth of the river,
La
Post by J R-S
Salle planted a wooden cross in the ground and took possession of the
territory in the name of Louis XIV of France. He called it Louisiane,
land
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
of Louis.
- Byram and Lewis say "Ourigan" is a Cree Indian pronunciation of
"ooligan,"
Post by J R-S
a word used across the Northwest Coast for a small, smelt-like fish
whose
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
oil, or grease, continues to be very important to Indian people. In the
1700s a vast network of ooligan "grease trails" stretched from Alaska to
the
Post by J R-S
Fraser River, even crossing the northern Rockies. These trade pathways
carried ooligan to many people speaking many languages, which the
researchers say resulted in at least 30 documented spellings and
pronunciations of the word.
Lewis says that the ooligan-Oregon connection is fitting.
"The Indians of the Northwest were known for their great wealth, and
nutritious ooligan oil was one of their most valued trade goods," he
says.
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
"Some of the greatest potlatch ceremonies were ooligan 'grease feasts,'
and
Post by J R-S
ooligan also was a medicine. The Gitksan people call ooligan 'ha la
mootxw,'
Post by J R-S
which means, 'for curing humanity'."
For centuries before European colonists reached the Pacific, Indians
east
Post by J R-S
of
Post by J R-S
the Rockies traveled great distances to trade for Northwest people's
riches--of which one of the most sought after was ooligan grease. It
most
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
likely was the Western Cree Indians who told British representatives at
the
Post by J R-S
Great Lakes of the canoe route and trail to the River Ourigan, via Lake
Winnipeg and the Saskatchewan River.
The writer Jonathan Carver is credited with later changing the name to
"Oregon," which first appeared in his "Travels Through the Interior Part
of
Post by J R-S
North America" in 1778. By the time Thomas Jefferson sent Meriwether
Lewis
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
and William Clark to find a water route to the west, cartographers were
using the name Oregon for the Columbia River.
Lewis and Clark didn't follow the original trail to the River Ourigan,
but
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
as they wintered on the Columbia, they did consume plenty of ooligan, a
type
Post by J R-S
of smelt, which they bought from the Clatsop Indians. Here they also
heard
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
several other words from the Chinook jargon trade language, which
enabled
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
trade between tribes across vast regions.
Byram and Lewis say that their experience working with Northwest Indian
tribes made this discovery possible. Lewis is a member of the
Confederated
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
Tribes of Grand Ronde, and Byram works with the Coquille Tribe and other
Indian communities. Both are in the UO anthropology doctoral program, in
which they have helped build a Northwest Indian heritage archive at the
Knight Library.
"Our research is controversial," says Byram. "Until now, historians have
sought the meaning of Oregon in the continental U.S., mostly from
European
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
sources, but the earliest records show that Oregon was an Indian name
for
Post by J R-S
a
Post by J R-S
large river west of the Rockies and north of the Columbia."
Byram and Lewis say they'll need to do more research to convince some of
their colleagues of the indigenous origin of this important place name.
Yet
Post by J R-S
their findings and techniques already are drawing the attention of other
researchers and tribal members who see great value in the study of
traditional Indian geography and tribal oral history.
"Some of the best sources on Northwest history have been disregarded
because
Post by J R-S
researchers haven't seen the value of tribal oral history," says Lewis.
"As
Post by J R-S
Indians become more involved in this research, we're going to see a big
change in how we understand and appreciate Northwest history."
Marianne Keddington-Lang, editor of the Oregon Historical Quarterly,
says
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
that Byram and Lewis "have taken a new approach and applied a broader
context to a topic that has been researched many times before. They have
enlarged the discussion, but probably haven't answered the question
definitively. I don't think anyone will be able to do that for a
while--if
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
ever."
********************************
********************************
Now amigo Jaime, who the fuck are the Mexicans? Descendants of the
Spaniards? A Spanish mix with Indians? Tell me amigo, who the fuck are
the
Post by J R-S
Mexicans? The Spaniards were the conquistadores, conquerors of who?
Did
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
they conquer the Mexicans? Who were the Mexicans before the Spaniards
got
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
to what is now Central America? I could go on and on amigo, but you
are
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
better off sticking with your sea food (marine sciences).
If the Mexicans had Texas and California, those places would be big pig
stys
Post by J R-S
just like the rest of Latin American is today. It would be ruled by tin
horn dictators.
Sorry amigo, but you have a lot of sheeeet for brains.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.520 / Virus Database: 318 - Release Date: 9/19/2003
pedro martori
2003-09-28 19:30:29 UTC
Permalink
only in a sick ,full of shit mind like yours such an idea can take place...
or that is a pure shit statement...which does not concord with the facts
and the reality...

BTW...I do remember very well...some 40 years ago...imagine !
40 yrs. ago...!
I met a chicano girl, or an american of mexican ancestors...
in Texas, I was so glad to meet a latina during those days that I was almost
moved by the ncounter. I ask her if she was mexican...?

Guess what shit head ?
Her answer was : NO ! I am an american!
Looked like she was offended by my question...
in my latinhood...I felt more ashame than her...!
Post by J R-S
Not me, Mexicans are doing just that, lol
jrs
Post by pedro martori
ja, ja, what an argument...!
if the europeans would go back 2000 yrs. then the italians could claim
that
Post by pedro martori
it all belonged to Julius Ceasar...or the Roman Empire...
an we could go over the entire planet ...looking for all those lands that
BEFORE belonged to other nations and people...
now ...shit head...try to reconquer that southwest of the USA for you
all ...see if you can...!
Post by J R-S
OK, I am full of sheeet, you are full of shiiiiitttt
I don't have enough time to teach you something this time. The only
thing
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
that I am going to say is that etymology is something you should have
taken
Post by J R-S
in college if you ever went to it.
It was typical of Spaniards to name cities with their must important
resources name. Sometimes they names more than one with the same name.
They not only names California as their land of gold they also named
Cali
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Colombia with that name. Guess what, there was a lot of gold there too.
The origin of the word Cali, I was told that it was Inca or Aztec.
Makes
Post by pedro martori
no
Post by J R-S
different now. The fact is that it was Hispanic and still is.
Just that Anglos and white wannabis like you forgot who the land
belonged
Post by pedro martori
to
Post by J R-S
As far as Arizona. Well brainless scum, Zona is a Spanish word and
Arida
Post by pedro martori
is
Post by J R-S
another Spanish word. If you use them together they from the phrase
Zona
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Árida or Arizona. Is Arizona an arid zone? Yes it is...
Just that Anglos and white wannabis like you forgot who the land
belonged
Post by pedro martori
to
Post by J R-S
Your stupidity goes even farther.
Did you know that Louisiana belong to the Spaniards before than to the
French?
http://www.state.la.us/about_history2.htm
Just that Anglos and white wannabis like you forgot who the land
belonged
Post by pedro martori
to
Post by J R-S
Oregon was first colonized by Spaniards
http://bluebook.state.or.us/cultural/history/chron01.htm
Just that Anglos and white wannabis like you forgot who the land
belonged
Post by pedro martori
to
Post by J R-S
I can go on and on making a fool out of yourself but with two history
lessons is enough. You don't deserve more time than that.
As you can see, half of the US of A belonged to Hispanics and was taken
either by force of by cheating. The most richest parts too. The
Mexicans
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
are just claiming it back. BTW, did you hear that Hispanics are more
than
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
blacks now? Yeap, we are a bigger minority now. Still a minority but
have
Post by J R-S
more political power than your people now. You were brought here as
slaves,
Post by J R-S
Hispanics came here as conquistadors...
jrs
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
Excuse me sir...
Do you know what California means? Well, just so happens that Cali
means
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
gold and fornia stands for land of..
Yes, California was the "Land of Gold" founded by Spaniards a long
time
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
ago.
Post by J R-S
Just so happens that besides native americans to whom that land
really
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
belongs to, the spaniard descendants are the true owner because they
mixed
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
with the indians. They even brought the horses to the wild-wild
west
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
brainless pig!
So, if there is an inmigrant in California, that person speaks
English.
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
Same thing applies to Texas, Nevada(Snow Storm), Nuevo México (New
Mexico),
Post by J R-S
Arizona (Arid Zone), Oregón (Adams-Onis Treaty cedes Spain's
discovery
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
rights north of 42 degrees to the U. S), Luisiana (Luis and Ann),
Florida
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
(Blossom), and half of the US of A.
Give California and Texas back to the Mexicans and lets see how poor
that
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
country is and how rich the US of A will be.
Mexicans, Chicanos and people of spanish descent are not the
inmigrants,
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
anglos are...
jrs
-------------------------
Amigo Jaime Rivera Sierra,
You are so full of sheeeeeeeeeet!
- like El Dorado, Quivira, and The Seven Cities of Cibola, was the
name
Post by pedro martori
of
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
one of the utopias which originated in the imagination of the people
after
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
the discovery of America had revived the age-old dream of a paradise
on
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
earth. The mythical realm was apparently created by the Spanish writer
Montalvo in the romance Las Sergas de Esplandián (the exploits of
Esplandian) and endowed with beautiful black Amazons, gold and pearls.
The
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
name is a fanciful creation; none of the many explanations of the
meaning
Post by J R-S
of
Post by J R-S
California can be substantiated. Golfo de la California and Cabo
California
Post by J R-S
appear on maps of 1562. In 1569 the name was applied to the
peninsula
Post by J R-S
of
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
what is now Lower California; on later maps it was often extended to
include
Post by J R-S
the entire Pacific coast. From 1769 to 1846 the area which
approximately
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
included in the present state was termed Alta (upper), or Nuevo (new),
California.
- Historians disagree about the meaning and derivation of the place
name
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
Arizona. What is now southern Arizona and northern México was known
by
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
the
Post by J R-S
Spanish as the Pimería Alta, or Upper Pima Country after the natives
of
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
the
Post by J R-S
area whom the Spanish called Pima. Within this area was a district in
what
Post by J R-S
is now southern Pima Co., AZ and northern Sonora, México that the
Spanish
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
called Arizonac, Arissona or Arizona.
James H. McClintock in Arizona, Prehistoric, Aboriginal, Pioneer,
The Nation's Youngest Commonwealth within a Land of Ancient Culture
(Chicago: The S. J. Clarke Publishing Co., 1916) and in other works
noted
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
that the name was probably derived from a native place name that
sounded
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
like Aleh-zon or Ali-Shonak which meant small spring or place of the
small
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
spring. This place is believed to have been south of the
international
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
border in Sonora, México near a place called Banera eight miles west
of
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Old
Post by J R-S
Sásabe. It is believed to have been a station of the Sáric mission
destroyed in the late 1700's by the Spanish.
- In 1682-Robert Cavelier, Sieur de La Salle and Henri de Tonti who
were
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
living in Canada, decided to explore the Mississippi River accompanied
by
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
fifty-four French and Indians. When they reached the mouth of the
river,
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
La
Post by J R-S
Salle planted a wooden cross in the ground and took possession of the
territory in the name of Louis XIV of France. He called it Louisiane,
land
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
of Louis.
- Byram and Lewis say "Ourigan" is a Cree Indian pronunciation of
"ooligan,"
Post by J R-S
a word used across the Northwest Coast for a small, smelt-like fish
whose
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
oil, or grease, continues to be very important to Indian people. In
the
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
1700s a vast network of ooligan "grease trails" stretched from
Alaska
Post by J R-S
to
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
the
Post by J R-S
Fraser River, even crossing the northern Rockies. These trade pathways
carried ooligan to many people speaking many languages, which the
researchers say resulted in at least 30 documented spellings and
pronunciations of the word.
Lewis says that the ooligan-Oregon connection is fitting.
"The Indians of the Northwest were known for their great wealth, and
nutritious ooligan oil was one of their most valued trade goods," he
says.
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
"Some of the greatest potlatch ceremonies were ooligan 'grease
feasts,'
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
and
Post by J R-S
ooligan also was a medicine. The Gitksan people call ooligan 'ha la
mootxw,'
Post by J R-S
which means, 'for curing humanity'."
For centuries before European colonists reached the Pacific, Indians
east
Post by J R-S
of
Post by J R-S
the Rockies traveled great distances to trade for Northwest people's
riches--of which one of the most sought after was ooligan grease. It
most
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
likely was the Western Cree Indians who told British representatives
at
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
the
Post by J R-S
Great Lakes of the canoe route and trail to the River Ourigan, via
Lake
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
Winnipeg and the Saskatchewan River.
The writer Jonathan Carver is credited with later changing the name to
"Oregon," which first appeared in his "Travels Through the Interior
Part
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
of
Post by J R-S
North America" in 1778. By the time Thomas Jefferson sent Meriwether
Lewis
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
and William Clark to find a water route to the west, cartographers
were
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
using the name Oregon for the Columbia River.
Lewis and Clark didn't follow the original trail to the River Ourigan,
but
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
as they wintered on the Columbia, they did consume plenty of
ooligan,
Post by J R-S
a
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
type
Post by J R-S
of smelt, which they bought from the Clatsop Indians. Here they also
heard
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
several other words from the Chinook jargon trade language, which
enabled
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
trade between tribes across vast regions.
Byram and Lewis say that their experience working with Northwest
Indian
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
tribes made this discovery possible. Lewis is a member of the
Confederated
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
Tribes of Grand Ronde, and Byram works with the Coquille Tribe and
other
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
Indian communities. Both are in the UO anthropology doctoral
program,
Post by J R-S
in
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
which they have helped build a Northwest Indian heritage archive at
the
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
Knight Library.
"Our research is controversial," says Byram. "Until now, historians
have
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
sought the meaning of Oregon in the continental U.S., mostly from
European
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
sources, but the earliest records show that Oregon was an Indian name
for
Post by J R-S
a
Post by J R-S
large river west of the Rockies and north of the Columbia."
Byram and Lewis say they'll need to do more research to convince
some
Post by J R-S
of
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
their colleagues of the indigenous origin of this important place
name.
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Yet
Post by J R-S
their findings and techniques already are drawing the attention of
other
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
researchers and tribal members who see great value in the study of
traditional Indian geography and tribal oral history.
"Some of the best sources on Northwest history have been disregarded
because
Post by J R-S
researchers haven't seen the value of tribal oral history," says
Lewis.
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
"As
Post by J R-S
Indians become more involved in this research, we're going to see a
big
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
change in how we understand and appreciate Northwest history."
Marianne Keddington-Lang, editor of the Oregon Historical Quarterly,
says
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
that Byram and Lewis "have taken a new approach and applied a broader
context to a topic that has been researched many times before. They
have
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
enlarged the discussion, but probably haven't answered the question
definitively. I don't think anyone will be able to do that for a
while--if
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
ever."
********************************
********************************
Now amigo Jaime, who the fuck are the Mexicans? Descendants of the
Spaniards? A Spanish mix with Indians? Tell me amigo, who the fuck
are
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
the
Post by J R-S
Mexicans? The Spaniards were the conquistadores, conquerors of who?
Did
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
they conquer the Mexicans? Who were the Mexicans before the Spaniards
got
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
to what is now Central America? I could go on and on amigo, but you
are
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
better off sticking with your sea food (marine sciences).
If the Mexicans had Texas and California, those places would be big
pig
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
stys
Post by J R-S
just like the rest of Latin American is today. It would be ruled by
tin
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
horn dictators.
Sorry amigo, but you have a lot of sheeeet for brains.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.520 / Virus Database: 318 - Release Date: 9/19/2003
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.521 / Virus Database: 319 - Release Date: 9/23/2003
J R-S
2003-09-29 00:15:41 UTC
Permalink
lol
Even YOU and the Observito say that are Americans...

jrs
Post by pedro martori
only in a sick ,full of shit mind like yours such an idea can take place...
or that is a pure shit statement...which does not concord with the facts
and the reality...
BTW...I do remember very well...some 40 years ago...imagine !
40 yrs. ago...!
I met a chicano girl, or an american of mexican ancestors...
in Texas, I was so glad to meet a latina during those days that I was almost
moved by the ncounter. I ask her if she was mexican...?
Guess what shit head ?
Her answer was : NO ! I am an american!
Looked like she was offended by my question...
in my latinhood...I felt more ashame than her...!
Post by J R-S
Not me, Mexicans are doing just that, lol
jrs
Post by pedro martori
ja, ja, what an argument...!
if the europeans would go back 2000 yrs. then the italians could claim
that
Post by pedro martori
it all belonged to Julius Ceasar...or the Roman Empire...
an we could go over the entire planet ...looking for all those lands
that
Post by J R-S
Post by pedro martori
BEFORE belonged to other nations and people...
now ...shit head...try to reconquer that southwest of the USA for you
all ...see if you can...!
Post by J R-S
OK, I am full of sheeet, you are full of shiiiiitttt
I don't have enough time to teach you something this time. The only
thing
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
that I am going to say is that etymology is something you should have
taken
Post by J R-S
in college if you ever went to it.
It was typical of Spaniards to name cities with their must important
resources name. Sometimes they names more than one with the same
name.
Post by J R-S
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
They not only names California as their land of gold they also named
Cali
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Colombia with that name. Guess what, there was a lot of gold there
too.
Post by J R-S
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
The origin of the word Cali, I was told that it was Inca or Aztec.
Makes
Post by pedro martori
no
Post by J R-S
different now. The fact is that it was Hispanic and still is.
Just that Anglos and white wannabis like you forgot who the land
belonged
Post by pedro martori
to
Post by J R-S
As far as Arizona. Well brainless scum, Zona is a Spanish word and
Arida
Post by pedro martori
is
Post by J R-S
another Spanish word. If you use them together they from the phrase
Zona
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Árida or Arizona. Is Arizona an arid zone? Yes it is...
Just that Anglos and white wannabis like you forgot who the land
belonged
Post by pedro martori
to
Post by J R-S
Your stupidity goes even farther.
Did you know that Louisiana belong to the Spaniards before than to the
French?
http://www.state.la.us/about_history2.htm
Just that Anglos and white wannabis like you forgot who the land
belonged
Post by pedro martori
to
Post by J R-S
Oregon was first colonized by Spaniards
http://bluebook.state.or.us/cultural/history/chron01.htm
Just that Anglos and white wannabis like you forgot who the land
belonged
Post by pedro martori
to
Post by J R-S
I can go on and on making a fool out of yourself but with two history
lessons is enough. You don't deserve more time than that.
As you can see, half of the US of A belonged to Hispanics and was
taken
Post by J R-S
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
either by force of by cheating. The most richest parts too. The
Mexicans
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
are just claiming it back. BTW, did you hear that Hispanics are more
than
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
blacks now? Yeap, we are a bigger minority now. Still a minority but
have
Post by J R-S
more political power than your people now. You were brought here as
slaves,
Post by J R-S
Hispanics came here as conquistadors...
jrs
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
Excuse me sir...
Do you know what California means? Well, just so happens that
Cali
Post by J R-S
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
means
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
gold and fornia stands for land of..
Yes, California was the "Land of Gold" founded by Spaniards a long
time
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
ago.
Post by J R-S
Just so happens that besides native americans to whom that land
really
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
belongs to, the spaniard descendants are the true owner because
they
Post by J R-S
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
mixed
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
with the indians. They even brought the horses to the wild-wild
west
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
brainless pig!
So, if there is an inmigrant in California, that person speaks
English.
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
Same thing applies to Texas, Nevada(Snow Storm), Nuevo México (New
Mexico),
Post by J R-S
Arizona (Arid Zone), Oregón (Adams-Onis Treaty cedes Spain's
discovery
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
rights north of 42 degrees to the U. S), Luisiana (Luis and Ann),
Florida
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
(Blossom), and half of the US of A.
Give California and Texas back to the Mexicans and lets see how
poor
Post by J R-S
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
that
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
country is and how rich the US of A will be.
Mexicans, Chicanos and people of spanish descent are not the
inmigrants,
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
anglos are...
jrs
-------------------------
Amigo Jaime Rivera Sierra,
You are so full of sheeeeeeeeeet!
- like El Dorado, Quivira, and The Seven Cities of Cibola, was the
name
Post by pedro martori
of
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
one of the utopias which originated in the imagination of the people
after
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
the discovery of America had revived the age-old dream of a paradise
on
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
earth. The mythical realm was apparently created by the Spanish
writer
Post by J R-S
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
Montalvo in the romance Las Sergas de Esplandián (the exploits of
Esplandian) and endowed with beautiful black Amazons, gold and
pearls.
Post by J R-S
Post by pedro martori
The
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
name is a fanciful creation; none of the many explanations of the
meaning
Post by J R-S
of
Post by J R-S
California can be substantiated. Golfo de la California and Cabo
California
Post by J R-S
appear on maps of 1562. In 1569 the name was applied to the
peninsula
Post by J R-S
of
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
what is now Lower California; on later maps it was often extended to
include
Post by J R-S
the entire Pacific coast. From 1769 to 1846 the area which
approximately
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
included in the present state was termed Alta (upper), or Nuevo
(new),
Post by J R-S
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
California.
- Historians disagree about the meaning and derivation of the place
name
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
Arizona. What is now southern Arizona and northern México was known
by
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
the
Post by J R-S
Spanish as the Pimería Alta, or Upper Pima Country after the natives
of
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
the
Post by J R-S
area whom the Spanish called Pima. Within this area was a
district
Post by pedro martori
in
Post by J R-S
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
what
Post by J R-S
is now southern Pima Co., AZ and northern Sonora, México that the
Spanish
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
called Arizonac, Arissona or Arizona.
James H. McClintock in Arizona, Prehistoric, Aboriginal, Pioneer,
The Nation's Youngest Commonwealth within a Land of Ancient Culture
(Chicago: The S. J. Clarke Publishing Co., 1916) and in other works
noted
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
that the name was probably derived from a native place name that
sounded
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
like Aleh-zon or Ali-Shonak which meant small spring or place of the
small
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
spring. This place is believed to have been south of the
international
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
border in Sonora, México near a place called Banera eight miles west
of
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Old
Post by J R-S
Sásabe. It is believed to have been a station of the Sáric mission
destroyed in the late 1700's by the Spanish.
- In 1682-Robert Cavelier, Sieur de La Salle and Henri de Tonti who
were
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
living in Canada, decided to explore the Mississippi River
accompanied
Post by J R-S
Post by pedro martori
by
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
fifty-four French and Indians. When they reached the mouth of the
river,
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
La
Post by J R-S
Salle planted a wooden cross in the ground and took possession of
the
Post by J R-S
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
territory in the name of Louis XIV of France. He called it
Louisiane,
Post by J R-S
Post by pedro martori
land
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
of Louis.
- Byram and Lewis say "Ourigan" is a Cree Indian pronunciation of
"ooligan,"
Post by J R-S
a word used across the Northwest Coast for a small, smelt-like fish
whose
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
oil, or grease, continues to be very important to Indian people. In
the
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
1700s a vast network of ooligan "grease trails" stretched from
Alaska
Post by J R-S
to
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
the
Post by J R-S
Fraser River, even crossing the northern Rockies. These trade
pathways
Post by J R-S
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
carried ooligan to many people speaking many languages, which the
researchers say resulted in at least 30 documented spellings and
pronunciations of the word.
Lewis says that the ooligan-Oregon connection is fitting.
"The Indians of the Northwest were known for their great wealth, and
nutritious ooligan oil was one of their most valued trade goods," he
says.
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
"Some of the greatest potlatch ceremonies were ooligan 'grease
feasts,'
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
and
Post by J R-S
ooligan also was a medicine. The Gitksan people call ooligan 'ha la
mootxw,'
Post by J R-S
which means, 'for curing humanity'."
For centuries before European colonists reached the Pacific, Indians
east
Post by J R-S
of
Post by J R-S
the Rockies traveled great distances to trade for Northwest people's
riches--of which one of the most sought after was ooligan grease. It
most
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
likely was the Western Cree Indians who told British
representatives
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
at
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
the
Post by J R-S
Great Lakes of the canoe route and trail to the River Ourigan, via
Lake
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
Winnipeg and the Saskatchewan River.
The writer Jonathan Carver is credited with later changing the
name
Post by pedro martori
to
Post by J R-S
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
"Oregon," which first appeared in his "Travels Through the Interior
Part
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
of
Post by J R-S
North America" in 1778. By the time Thomas Jefferson sent Meriwether
Lewis
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
and William Clark to find a water route to the west, cartographers
were
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
using the name Oregon for the Columbia River.
Lewis and Clark didn't follow the original trail to the River
Ourigan,
Post by J R-S
Post by pedro martori
but
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
as they wintered on the Columbia, they did consume plenty of
ooligan,
Post by J R-S
a
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
type
Post by J R-S
of smelt, which they bought from the Clatsop Indians. Here they also
heard
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
several other words from the Chinook jargon trade language, which
enabled
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
trade between tribes across vast regions.
Byram and Lewis say that their experience working with Northwest
Indian
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
tribes made this discovery possible. Lewis is a member of the
Confederated
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
Tribes of Grand Ronde, and Byram works with the Coquille Tribe and
other
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
Indian communities. Both are in the UO anthropology doctoral
program,
Post by J R-S
in
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
which they have helped build a Northwest Indian heritage archive at
the
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
Knight Library.
"Our research is controversial," says Byram. "Until now, historians
have
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
sought the meaning of Oregon in the continental U.S., mostly from
European
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
sources, but the earliest records show that Oregon was an Indian
name
Post by J R-S
Post by pedro martori
for
Post by J R-S
a
Post by J R-S
large river west of the Rockies and north of the Columbia."
Byram and Lewis say they'll need to do more research to convince
some
Post by J R-S
of
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
their colleagues of the indigenous origin of this important place
name.
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Yet
Post by J R-S
their findings and techniques already are drawing the attention of
other
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
researchers and tribal members who see great value in the study of
traditional Indian geography and tribal oral history.
"Some of the best sources on Northwest history have been disregarded
because
Post by J R-S
researchers haven't seen the value of tribal oral history," says
Lewis.
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
"As
Post by J R-S
Indians become more involved in this research, we're going to see a
big
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
change in how we understand and appreciate Northwest history."
Marianne Keddington-Lang, editor of the Oregon Historical Quarterly,
says
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
that Byram and Lewis "have taken a new approach and applied a
broader
Post by J R-S
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
context to a topic that has been researched many times before. They
have
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
enlarged the discussion, but probably haven't answered the question
definitively. I don't think anyone will be able to do that for a
while--if
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
ever."
********************************
********************************
Now amigo Jaime, who the fuck are the Mexicans? Descendants of the
Spaniards? A Spanish mix with Indians? Tell me amigo, who the fuck
are
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
the
Post by J R-S
Mexicans? The Spaniards were the conquistadores, conquerors of who?
Did
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
they conquer the Mexicans? Who were the Mexicans before the
Spaniards
Post by J R-S
Post by pedro martori
got
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
to what is now Central America? I could go on and on amigo, but
you
Post by J R-S
Post by pedro martori
are
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
better off sticking with your sea food (marine sciences).
If the Mexicans had Texas and California, those places would be big
pig
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
stys
Post by J R-S
just like the rest of Latin American is today. It would be ruled by
tin
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
horn dictators.
Sorry amigo, but you have a lot of sheeeet for brains.
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torresD
2003-09-29 02:44:38 UTC
Permalink
Mexicans have taken over California, Texas, they will flood Florida soon.
You like hot tamales, Pedrito?
Post by pedro martori
ja, ja, what an argument...!
if the europeans would go back 2000 yrs. then the italians could claim that
it all belonged to Julius Ceasar...or the Roman Empire...
an we could go over the entire planet ...looking for all those lands that
BEFORE belonged to other nations and people...
now ...shit head...try to reconquer that southwest of the USA for you
all ...see if you can...!
Post by J R-S
OK, I am full of sheeet, you are full of shiiiiitttt
I don't have enough time to teach you something this time. The only thing
that I am going to say is that etymology is something you should have
taken
Post by J R-S
in college if you ever went to it.
It was typical of Spaniards to name cities with their must important
resources name. Sometimes they names more than one with the same name.
They not only names California as their land of gold they also named Cali
Colombia with that name. Guess what, there was a lot of gold there too.
The origin of the word Cali, I was told that it was Inca or Aztec.
Makes
Post by pedro martori
no
Post by J R-S
different now. The fact is that it was Hispanic and still is.
Just that Anglos and white wannabis like you forgot who the land
belonged
Post by pedro martori
to
Post by J R-S
As far as Arizona. Well brainless scum, Zona is a Spanish word and
Arida
Post by pedro martori
is
Post by J R-S
another Spanish word. If you use them together they from the phrase Zona
Árida or Arizona. Is Arizona an arid zone? Yes it is...
Just that Anglos and white wannabis like you forgot who the land
belonged
Post by pedro martori
to
Post by J R-S
Your stupidity goes even farther.
Did you know that Louisiana belong to the Spaniards before than to the
French?
http://www.state.la.us/about_history2.htm
Just that Anglos and white wannabis like you forgot who the land
belonged
Post by pedro martori
to
Post by J R-S
Oregon was first colonized by Spaniards
http://bluebook.state.or.us/cultural/history/chron01.htm
Just that Anglos and white wannabis like you forgot who the land
belonged
Post by pedro martori
to
Post by J R-S
I can go on and on making a fool out of yourself but with two history
lessons is enough. You don't deserve more time than that.
As you can see, half of the US of A belonged to Hispanics and was taken
either by force of by cheating. The most richest parts too. The Mexicans
are just claiming it back. BTW, did you hear that Hispanics are more than
blacks now? Yeap, we are a bigger minority now. Still a minority but
have
Post by J R-S
more political power than your people now. You were brought here as
slaves,
Post by J R-S
Hispanics came here as conquistadors...
jrs
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
Excuse me sir...
Do you know what California means? Well, just so happens that Cali
means
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
gold and fornia stands for land of..
Yes, California was the "Land of Gold" founded by Spaniards a long
time
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
ago.
Post by J R-S
Just so happens that besides native americans to whom that land really
belongs to, the spaniard descendants are the true owner because they
mixed
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
with the indians. They even brought the horses to the wild-wild west
brainless pig!
So, if there is an inmigrant in California, that person speaks
English.
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
Same thing applies to Texas, Nevada(Snow Storm), Nuevo México (New
Mexico),
Post by J R-S
Arizona (Arid Zone), Oregón (Adams-Onis Treaty cedes Spain's discovery
rights north of 42 degrees to the U. S), Luisiana (Luis and Ann),
Florida
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
(Blossom), and half of the US of A.
Give California and Texas back to the Mexicans and lets see how poor
that
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
country is and how rich the US of A will be.
Mexicans, Chicanos and people of spanish descent are not the
inmigrants,
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
anglos are...
jrs
-------------------------
Amigo Jaime Rivera Sierra,
You are so full of sheeeeeeeeeet!
- like El Dorado, Quivira, and The Seven Cities of Cibola, was the
name
Post by pedro martori
of
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
one of the utopias which originated in the imagination of the people
after
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
the discovery of America had revived the age-old dream of a paradise on
earth. The mythical realm was apparently created by the Spanish writer
Montalvo in the romance Las Sergas de Esplandián (the exploits of
Esplandian) and endowed with beautiful black Amazons, gold and pearls.
The
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
name is a fanciful creation; none of the many explanations of the
meaning
Post by J R-S
of
Post by J R-S
California can be substantiated. Golfo de la California and Cabo
California
Post by J R-S
appear on maps of 1562. In 1569 the name was applied to the peninsula of
what is now Lower California; on later maps it was often extended to
include
Post by J R-S
the entire Pacific coast. From 1769 to 1846 the area which
approximately
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
included in the present state was termed Alta (upper), or Nuevo (new),
California.
- Historians disagree about the meaning and derivation of the place name
Arizona. What is now southern Arizona and northern México was known by
the
Post by J R-S
Spanish as the Pimería Alta, or Upper Pima Country after the natives of
the
Post by J R-S
area whom the Spanish called Pima. Within this area was a district in
what
Post by J R-S
is now southern Pima Co., AZ and northern Sonora, México that the
Spanish
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
called Arizonac, Arissona or Arizona.
James H. McClintock in Arizona, Prehistoric, Aboriginal, Pioneer,
The Nation's Youngest Commonwealth within a Land of Ancient Culture
(Chicago: The S. J. Clarke Publishing Co., 1916) and in other works
noted
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
that the name was probably derived from a native place name that sounded
like Aleh-zon or Ali-Shonak which meant small spring or place of the
small
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
spring. This place is believed to have been south of the
international
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
border in Sonora, México near a place called Banera eight miles west of
Old
Post by J R-S
Sásabe. It is believed to have been a station of the Sáric mission
destroyed in the late 1700's by the Spanish.
- In 1682-Robert Cavelier, Sieur de La Salle and Henri de Tonti who were
living in Canada, decided to explore the Mississippi River accompanied
by
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
fifty-four French and Indians. When they reached the mouth of the river,
La
Post by J R-S
Salle planted a wooden cross in the ground and took possession of the
territory in the name of Louis XIV of France. He called it Louisiane,
land
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
of Louis.
- Byram and Lewis say "Ourigan" is a Cree Indian pronunciation of
"ooligan,"
Post by J R-S
a word used across the Northwest Coast for a small, smelt-like fish
whose
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
oil, or grease, continues to be very important to Indian people. In the
1700s a vast network of ooligan "grease trails" stretched from Alaska to
the
Post by J R-S
Fraser River, even crossing the northern Rockies. These trade pathways
carried ooligan to many people speaking many languages, which the
researchers say resulted in at least 30 documented spellings and
pronunciations of the word.
Lewis says that the ooligan-Oregon connection is fitting.
"The Indians of the Northwest were known for their great wealth, and
nutritious ooligan oil was one of their most valued trade goods," he
says.
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
"Some of the greatest potlatch ceremonies were ooligan 'grease feasts,'
and
Post by J R-S
ooligan also was a medicine. The Gitksan people call ooligan 'ha la
mootxw,'
Post by J R-S
which means, 'for curing humanity'."
For centuries before European colonists reached the Pacific, Indians
east
Post by J R-S
of
Post by J R-S
the Rockies traveled great distances to trade for Northwest people's
riches--of which one of the most sought after was ooligan grease. It
most
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
likely was the Western Cree Indians who told British representatives at
the
Post by J R-S
Great Lakes of the canoe route and trail to the River Ourigan, via Lake
Winnipeg and the Saskatchewan River.
The writer Jonathan Carver is credited with later changing the name to
"Oregon," which first appeared in his "Travels Through the Interior Part
of
Post by J R-S
North America" in 1778. By the time Thomas Jefferson sent Meriwether
Lewis
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
and William Clark to find a water route to the west, cartographers were
using the name Oregon for the Columbia River.
Lewis and Clark didn't follow the original trail to the River Ourigan,
but
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
as they wintered on the Columbia, they did consume plenty of ooligan, a
type
Post by J R-S
of smelt, which they bought from the Clatsop Indians. Here they also
heard
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
several other words from the Chinook jargon trade language, which
enabled
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
trade between tribes across vast regions.
Byram and Lewis say that their experience working with Northwest Indian
tribes made this discovery possible. Lewis is a member of the
Confederated
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
Tribes of Grand Ronde, and Byram works with the Coquille Tribe and other
Indian communities. Both are in the UO anthropology doctoral program, in
which they have helped build a Northwest Indian heritage archive at the
Knight Library.
"Our research is controversial," says Byram. "Until now, historians have
sought the meaning of Oregon in the continental U.S., mostly from
European
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
sources, but the earliest records show that Oregon was an Indian name
for
Post by J R-S
a
Post by J R-S
large river west of the Rockies and north of the Columbia."
Byram and Lewis say they'll need to do more research to convince some of
their colleagues of the indigenous origin of this important place name.
Yet
Post by J R-S
their findings and techniques already are drawing the attention of other
researchers and tribal members who see great value in the study of
traditional Indian geography and tribal oral history.
"Some of the best sources on Northwest history have been disregarded
because
Post by J R-S
researchers haven't seen the value of tribal oral history," says Lewis.
"As
Post by J R-S
Indians become more involved in this research, we're going to see a big
change in how we understand and appreciate Northwest history."
Marianne Keddington-Lang, editor of the Oregon Historical Quarterly,
says
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
that Byram and Lewis "have taken a new approach and applied a broader
context to a topic that has been researched many times before. They have
enlarged the discussion, but probably haven't answered the question
definitively. I don't think anyone will be able to do that for a
while--if
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
ever."
********************************
********************************
Now amigo Jaime, who the fuck are the Mexicans? Descendants of the
Spaniards? A Spanish mix with Indians? Tell me amigo, who the fuck are
the
Post by J R-S
Mexicans? The Spaniards were the conquistadores, conquerors of who?
Did
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
they conquer the Mexicans? Who were the Mexicans before the Spaniards
got
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
to what is now Central America? I could go on and on amigo, but you
are
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
better off sticking with your sea food (marine sciences).
If the Mexicans had Texas and California, those places would be big pig
stys
Post by J R-S
just like the rest of Latin American is today. It would be ruled by tin
horn dictators.
Sorry amigo, but you have a lot of sheeeet for brains.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.520 / Virus Database: 318 - Release Date: 9/19/2003
Super Duty
2003-09-28 11:49:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by J R-S
OK, I am full of sheeet, you are full of shiiiiitttt
I don't have enough time to teach you something this time. The only thing
that I am going to say is that etymology is something you should have taken
in college if you ever went to it.
---------------------------

Amigo Jaime Rivera Sierra, how about putting it this way.

"You are so full of Shit!" No matter how you paint it, you are still "Full
of Shit!" After you finish eating, I bet you wipe your face with Charmin
and then brush your teeth with Nair.

Obviously you have a very low esteem of yourself. Do all Latinos have that
complex or is it just a few like you?

Why do White people infuriate you? Are all Puerto Ricans as stupid as you
or just a few like you and torresD?

Are Puerto Ricans ashamed of you or are they proud of you that you are one
of them?

By the way, have you received the grant you were seeking from Uncle Sam, the
uncle you despise so much? Aren't you the guy that wants to do some studies
in South Florida using free US dollars? I know you didn't know how to go
about applying for a grant, did you ever learn? If you weren't aware of it,
I am a consultant and assist people in obtaining grants, so if you ever want
to get a grant, let me know; however, just like all consultants, there is a
fee involved. Be informed that the consultant fee is not an eligible line
item on the grant. What that means is that you are going to have to ante up
a few dollars from your pocket first before you can apply for the grant. So
if you don't have the money in hand now, I suggest you go out and do some
panhandling at the nearest shopping mall to you.
J R-S
2003-09-28 12:54:58 UTC
Permalink
And the point is? lol, trying for an escape route again?

jrs
Post by Super Duty
Post by J R-S
OK, I am full of sheeet, you are full of shiiiiitttt
I don't have enough time to teach you something this time. The only thing
that I am going to say is that etymology is something you should have
taken
Post by J R-S
in college if you ever went to it.
---------------------------
Amigo Jaime Rivera Sierra, how about putting it this way.
"You are so full of Shit!" No matter how you paint it, you are still "Full
of Shit!" After you finish eating, I bet you wipe your face with Charmin
and then brush your teeth with Nair.
Obviously you have a very low esteem of yourself. Do all Latinos have that
complex or is it just a few like you?
Why do White people infuriate you? Are all Puerto Ricans as stupid as you
or just a few like you and torresD?
Are Puerto Ricans ashamed of you or are they proud of you that you are one
of them?
By the way, have you received the grant you were seeking from Uncle Sam, the
uncle you despise so much? Aren't you the guy that wants to do some studies
in South Florida using free US dollars? I know you didn't know how to go
about applying for a grant, did you ever learn? If you weren't aware of it,
I am a consultant and assist people in obtaining grants, so if you ever want
to get a grant, let me know; however, just like all consultants, there is a
fee involved. Be informed that the consultant fee is not an eligible line
item on the grant. What that means is that you are going to have to ante up
a few dollars from your pocket first before you can apply for the grant.
So
Post by Super Duty
if you don't have the money in hand now, I suggest you go out and do some
panhandling at the nearest shopping mall to you.
Jorobillo Jiribilla
2003-09-28 20:30:46 UTC
Permalink
JR-S was a dunce called James,
With nothing but shit for brains,
Nobody wanted the asshole around
'Cause whenever he uttered a sound,
His ears would leak and he'd leave a stain!
Post by J R-S
And the point is? lol, trying for an escape route again?
jrs
Post by Super Duty
Post by J R-S
OK, I am full of sheeet, you are full of shiiiiitttt
I don't have enough time to teach you something this time. The only
thing
Post by Super Duty
Post by J R-S
that I am going to say is that etymology is something you should have
taken
Post by J R-S
in college if you ever went to it.
---------------------------
Amigo Jaime Rivera Sierra, how about putting it this way.
"You are so full of Shit!" No matter how you paint it, you are still
"Full
Post by Super Duty
of Shit!" After you finish eating, I bet you wipe your face with Charmin
and then brush your teeth with Nair.
Obviously you have a very low esteem of yourself. Do all Latinos have
that
Post by Super Duty
complex or is it just a few like you?
Why do White people infuriate you? Are all Puerto Ricans as stupid as you
or just a few like you and torresD?
Are Puerto Ricans ashamed of you or are they proud of you that you are one
of them?
By the way, have you received the grant you were seeking from Uncle Sam,
the
Post by Super Duty
uncle you despise so much? Aren't you the guy that wants to do some
studies
Post by Super Duty
in South Florida using free US dollars? I know you didn't know how to go
about applying for a grant, did you ever learn? If you weren't aware of
it,
Post by Super Duty
I am a consultant and assist people in obtaining grants, so if you ever
want
Post by Super Duty
to get a grant, let me know; however, just like all consultants, there
is
Post by J R-S
a
Post by Super Duty
fee involved. Be informed that the consultant fee is not an eligible
line
Post by Super Duty
item on the grant. What that means is that you are going to have to
ante
Post by J R-S
up
Post by Super Duty
a few dollars from your pocket first before you can apply for the grant.
So
Post by Super Duty
if you don't have the money in hand now, I suggest you go out and do some
panhandling at the nearest shopping mall to you.
Super Duty
2003-10-01 01:12:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by J R-S
And the point is? lol, trying for an escape route again?
-------------------------------------------------

Simply put in a term that you may be able to understand, "the point is that you are a retard".

I noticed you laugh a lot, is that what you do when you get goosed?
Jorobillo Jiribilla
2003-09-28 17:52:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Super Duty
Post by J R-S
OK, I am full of sheeet, you are full of shiiiiitttt
I don't have enough time to teach you something this time. The only thing
that I am going to say is that etymology is something you should have
taken
Post by J R-S
in college if you ever went to it.
---------------------------
Amigo, sorry to butt in on your one-sided conversation, but since you don't
seem to read or speak Spanish, and JRS is going to continue to evade your
questions, I thought it prudent to give you a briefing on Ja-jaime's
background record, which has been recorded for posterity in this NG. Please
continue on down.
Post by Super Duty
Amigo Jaime Rivera Sierra, how about putting it this way.
"You are so full of Shit!" No matter how you paint it, you are still "Full
of Shit!" After you finish eating, I bet you wipe your face with Charmin
and then brush your teeth with Nair.
He does, he does. Trouble is, it doesn't do any good. If shit was oil,
Ja-Jaime would be a one-man OPEC.
Post by Super Duty
Obviously you have a very low esteem of yourself. Do all Latinos have that
complex or is it just a few like you?
Ja-Jaime is a ver-r-r-y special case. You have to take into account that the
guy is trying to make do with a residual brain.
Post by Super Duty
Why do White people infuriate you? Are all Puerto Ricans as stupid as you
or just a few like you and torresD?
The asshole is a blue-eyed blond (sparse though, he's almost bald), it must
be self-hatred (well justified in his case).

Him and torresD are each other's evil twins. They were separated at birth.
Having been joined at the top of their heads, the surgeons had to saw right
through their skulls to pull them apart. I hear that one of them said:
"Oops!" That's why Ja-Jaime has a metal dome on his head. If you knock on
it, it'll ring like a bell, with an almost pure high-C tone. I don't know
about torresD, since she probably wears a serpent's nest as a wig. Nobody
dares to get close enough to her to find out. It wouldn't be fun to spend
the rest of your days with stone joints.
Post by Super Duty
Are Puerto Ricans ashamed of you or are they proud of you that you are one
of them?
Proud we ain't, that's for sure! Yessiree, there's no doubt about that. We
wish he was an Eskimo or something like that! As a matter of fact we sent
him packing. Our gain, Florida's loss!

I heard he got fired from his first job as a recyclable turd collector in
Miami-Dade for being far behind the average daily quota. They couldn't prove
it, but they suspected him of snacking on the stuff.
Post by Super Duty
By the way, have you received the grant you were seeking from Uncle Sam, the
uncle you despise so much? Aren't you the guy that wants to do some studies
in South Florida using free US dollars? I know you didn't know how to go
about applying for a grant, did you ever learn? If you weren't aware of it,
I am a consultant and assist people in obtaining grants, so if you ever want
to get a grant, let me know; however, just like all consultants, there is a
fee involved. Be informed that the consultant fee is not an eligible line
item on the grant. What that means is that you are going to have to ante up
a few dollars from your pocket first before you can apply for the grant.
So
Post by Super Duty
if you don't have the money in hand now, I suggest you go out and do some
panhandling at the nearest shopping mall to you.
Actually, he was a seeking a partner to be the researcher, Ja-jaime was
offering himself up as the subject of the research. Read that public post
again very carefully and you'll see what I mean.

The security guards at all the malls in the area where he lives have orders
to shoot him on sight. He has this nasty habit of taking his metal dome off,
to use as a pot for coins, thus exposing that big blob of shit he calls
a brain. As you can imagine, that's bad for business.


PS: I call him Ja-Jaime because "Ja" is "Hah" in Spanish. The guy is a real
buffoon, a barrel of laughs.
ahlahan
2003-09-29 00:02:45 UTC
Permalink
He a DTorre suffer from the "I so want to be blonde blue eyed" complex. They
DESPISE being latin. Anyone who carries on and on about the "opression" of
the white man just shows their deep seated self hatred.
Instead of embracing who they are and using that misguided angst into
helping themselves, growing as people , helping themselves BECOME somebody
it is so much easier to complain , blame and demand.
When theyr'e confronted with someone of the same ethnicity as them but who
HAS made it, their usual cry is that they "Sold Out" , "Uncle Tom", "Whitey
wanna be".

The education of a Condoleeza Rice, a Collin Powell was not based in a
provileged WHITE upgringing.
The financial success of a Don King is CERTAINLY no cause of his lily white
skin.
It takes COURAGE to survive , regardlkess of your skin color.

Cowards complaint from the gutter.The valiant climbs their way out.
Post by Super Duty
Post by J R-S
OK, I am full of sheeet, you are full of shiiiiitttt
I don't have enough time to teach you something this time. The only thing
that I am going to say is that etymology is something you should have
taken
Post by J R-S
in college if you ever went to it.
---------------------------
Amigo Jaime Rivera Sierra, how about putting it this way.
"You are so full of Shit!" No matter how you paint it, you are still "Full
of Shit!" After you finish eating, I bet you wipe your face with Charmin
and then brush your teeth with Nair.
Obviously you have a very low esteem of yourself. Do all Latinos have that
complex or is it just a few like you?
Why do White people infuriate you? Are all Puerto Ricans as stupid as you
or just a few like you and torresD?
Are Puerto Ricans ashamed of you or are they proud of you that you are one
of them?
By the way, have you received the grant you were seeking from Uncle Sam, the
uncle you despise so much? Aren't you the guy that wants to do some studies
in South Florida using free US dollars? I know you didn't know how to go
about applying for a grant, did you ever learn? If you weren't aware of it,
I am a consultant and assist people in obtaining grants, so if you ever want
to get a grant, let me know; however, just like all consultants, there is a
fee involved. Be informed that the consultant fee is not an eligible line
item on the grant. What that means is that you are going to have to ante up
a few dollars from your pocket first before you can apply for the grant.
So
Post by Super Duty
if you don't have the money in hand now, I suggest you go out and do some
panhandling at the nearest shopping mall to you.
pedro martori
2003-09-28 05:48:29 UTC
Permalink
Centroamericanos residentes en Estados Unidos envian mas de 5,000 millones
de dolares anuales a sus paises. Mexicanos residentes en Estados Unidos
envian una suma proporcionalmente mayor.
Pastores por la Paz y otras organizaciones cristianas llevan anualmente al
gobierno de Fidel Castro varios millones de dolares en donaciones.
Los propios exilados cubanos envian mas de mil millones de dolares a Cuba.
El gobierno de los Estados Unidos distribuyen anualmente varias decenas de
miles de millones de dolares en ayuda a paises de Africa, Asia y Latino
America.
Diariamente emigran a Estados Unidos, legal e ilegalmente, miles de
personas que segun los voceros en defensa de dicha emigracion consiguen
trabajo en su mayoria.
Sin embargo el articulo que a continuacion reproducimos menciona que en
Estados Unidos existen 35 millones de personas pobres, que significa escasez
de trabajo y desempleo.
¿Si hay esa pobreza, porque de esa estampida de emigrantes, que incluso hace
que el presidente FOX de Mexico pida a Bush que le de via verde?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

EU tiene más de 35 millones de pobres

Victoria Infante
Reportera de La Opinión

27 de septiembre de 2003

El nivel de pobreza en el país aumentó por segundo año consecutivo, y pasó
del 11.7% en 2001 al 12.1% en 2002, informó la Oficina del Censo ayer y
estableció el número de pobres en más de 35 millones. Eso significa que el
año pasado 1.7 millones de estadounidenses se sumaron a la lista de personas
pobres, en comparación con las cifras de 2001. Más de 35 millones de
personas, según los datos de 2002, vivían en la pobreza en Estados Unidos.
Entre los latinos, que tienen una tasa de pobreza del 21.8%, unos 315 mil se
sumaron a las personas que viven en la "extrema" pobreza.La oficina también
reveló que el ingreso promedio en los hogares estadounidenses bajó un 1.1%
el año pasado, a 42,409 dólares anuales. Es decir que la mitad de todos los
hogares perciben más de esa cantidad y la otra mitad menos.El nivel de
pobreza aumentó de nuevo después de haber caído por casi una década al 11.3%
en 2000, el nivel más bajo en más de 25 años. Los niveles de ingreso se
incrementaron durante casi toda la década de los 90, luego se estabilizaron
en 2000 y cayeron de nuevo en los dos últimos años."Han sido varios factores
los que han influido, entre otros la desaceleración económica provocada por
los ataques terroristas del 11 de septiembre, lo que, a su vez, afectó al
sector turístico y muchas personas perdieron sus trabajos. También ha
influido el crecimiento de la industria manufacturera china", explicó Jack
Kyser, economista jefe de la Corporación para el Desarrollo Económico del
Condado de Los Angeles (LAEDC).En California, dijo el economista, muchos de
los trabajos perdidos eran desempeñados por latinos.Otros factores que
también han influido en el aumento del nivel de pobreza en el país es la
llegada de inmigrantes indocumentados con un nivel de preparación bajo, dijo
Kyser.Otros analistas consideran que ésta es la peor situación que el país
ha experimentado en los últimos 30 años, y es posible que cada vez haya más
gente sumida en la pobreza porque la economía no está generando empleos.Los
expertos han vaticinado que el aumento del desempleo del año pasado y la
todavía inestable economía aumentará la pobreza y disminuirá el ingreso para
la mayoría de la gente, a pesar de que oficialmente la recesión terminó en
noviembre de 2001."La recuperación será más lenta de lo que cualquiera
quisiera. Los negocios serán muy cautelosos para hacer cualquier movimiento"
, advirtió Kyser.
Daniel Weinberg, estadista de la Oficina del Censo, dijo que los cambios
entre 2001 y 2002 fueron consistentes con los cambios de pasadas recesiones.
"El punto más alto en el ciclo de pobreza y el punto más bajo en el ingreso
tienden a venir en el año después de la recesión", dijo en una conferencia
de prensa que se efectuó ayer en la sede de las oficinas del censo en
Suitland, Maryland.Los datos del censo también indicaron que el número de
personas en situación de pobreza severa aumentó de 13.4 millones en 2001 a
14.1 en 2002, y el número de individuos que se encuentran justo en el umbral
de la pobreza, 12.5 millones, no varió.La cifra de latinos en el nivel de
pobreza, 21.8 millones, tampoco cambió, según el reporte.La Oficina del
Censo no ofreció información por estado; sin embargo, los datos que se
dieron a conocer sugieren que el ingreso promedio de los californianos cayó
un 11.5% durante dos años, de 2000 a 2002.El informe destacó, como puntos
positivos, que disminuyeron tanto la desigualdad salarial como la brecha
entre los salarios de los hombres y de las mujeres. Así, las mujeres, en
general, ganan 77 centavos por cada dólar que reciben los hombres.
En el único estado donde aumentó el ingreso promedio fue en Oklahoma, pero
bajó en lugares como Illinois, Michigan, Missouri, Ohio, Florida, Hawai y
Nevada. Sólo las casas en donde la cabeza de la familia es nacida fuera del
país mostraron un declive en el ingreso de 3.9%.Para blancos no latinos, el
ingreso promedio bajó sólo un 0.3% el año pasado, a 46,900 dólares en 2002.
En contraste, el ingreso promedio disminuyó un 3% entre los afroamericanos y
un 2.9% entre los latinos.Los cálculos, elaborados anualmente por la Oficina
del Censo, se basaron en una encuesta de 78 mil hogares realizada en marzo
sobre ingresos y pobreza.Por primera vez en 2002, el censo permitió a los
encuestados responder si pertenecían a más de una raza. Esta situación
complicó la comparación de las tasas de pobreza e ingresos entre grupos
raciales.En las estadísticas de 2002, el gobierno consideró pobres a las
personas de menos de 65 años de edad que vivían solas y tenían ingresos de
9,359 dólares anuales o menos; y a las familias de tres miembros -entre
ellos un niño- que ganaron 14,480 dólares, por ejemplo. Para una familia de
cuatro personas, el nivel de pobreza son 18,244 dólares anuales.La Casa
Blanca indicó que la economía creció a un ritmo del 3.3% anual durante la
primavera, y que los recortes en los impuestos propuestos por el presidente
George Bush tenían la intención de respaldar los ingresos y bajar el nivel
de pobreza el año próximo.Los demócratas criticaron la "miopía" del
gobierno, al indicar que los recortes multimillonarios de impuestos
abultarán el déficit fiscal y que, desde que Bush asumió el poder en 2001,
se han perdido 3.3 millones de empleos en el sector privado.Aseguraron
además que la cifra de "nuevos pobres" no augura buenas noticias para un
país ya afectado por los altos costos de la posguerra en Irak.El informe
Encuesta de la Población Actual de la Oficina del Censo, indica "que las
políticas económicas de Bush dificultan el progreso de las familias de clase
media, que cargan con el peso de la mala gestión del mandatario, la peor
registrada desde (el presidente) Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)", dijo en un
comunicado la líder de la minoría demócrata en la Cámara de Representantes,
Nancy Pelosi.Los republicanos prefirieron destacar que el nivel de pobreza
actual es "significativamente" inferior al 13.7% de 1996, cuando entró en
vigor la reforma del welfare, y que no hubo cambios en el nivel de pobreza
de los niños."Es hora de aprobar más reformas [al welfare] que promuevan la
creación de empleos y el fortalecimiento de las familias, para reducir aún
más la pobreza", dijo el congresista republicano Wally Herger de
California.El Fondo de Defensa de los Niños (CDF) criticó nuevamente a Bush,
principalmente por los exiguos fondos para programas sociales destinados a
las familias pobres.El estudio indicó que más de 12,1 millones de niños
viven ahora bajo el nivel de pobreza. La lista de nuevos niños pobres
aumentó por unos 400 mil, la mayoría de ellos latinos (223 mil) y negros
(más de 153 mil)."Nuestros niños empobrecen más mientras la Administración
Bush y líderes del Congreso tratan de desmantelar las protecciones para la
niñez", para cubrir los recortes de impuestos y la posguerra en Irak, dijo
Marian Wright Edelman, presidenta del CDF.Según el CDF, millones de niños en
edad preescolar viven en barrios de miseria, con mayores posibilidades de
acostarse sin comer o de estar expuestos a la violencia.La Oficina del Censo
indicó que, del total de pobres, unos 14 millones viven prácticamente en la
miseria, con salarios que no les permiten cubrir todas sus necesidades.Según
el estudio, los pobres están más concentrados en el sur del país, el 13.8%
de la población, mientras que en el oeste conforman el 12.4%, en la zona
central el 10.3% y en el noreste, el 10.9%. (En la nota se usaron algunos
datos de los servicios de La Opinión)




lavozdecubalibre.com
Post by J R-S
Excuse me sir...
Do you know what California means? Well, just so happens that Cali means
gold and fornia stands for land of..
Yes, California was the "Land of Gold" founded by Spaniards a long time ago.
Just so happens that besides native americans to whom that land really
belongs to, the spaniard descendants are the true owner because they mixed
with the indians. They even brought the horses to the wild-wild west
brainless pig!
So, if there is an inmigrant in California, that person speaks English.
Same thing applies to Texas, Nevada(Snow Storm), Nuevo México (New Mexico),
Arizona (Arid Zone), Oregón (Adams-Onis Treaty cedes Spain's discovery
rights north of 42 degrees to the U. S), Luisiana (Luis and Ann), Florida
(Blossom), and half of the US of A.
Give California and Texas back to the Mexicans and lets see how poor that
country is and how rich the US of A will be.
Mexicans, Chicanos and people of spanish descent are not the inmigrants,
anglos are...
jrs
Post by Tom Shelly, Legendary White God
Post by torresD
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
Gee...do you think the statistics have anything to do with the massive
immigration this country has experienced in the last two decades?
Gee...just maybe your statistics are bullshit, huh?
In my State alone, California, immigration has accounted for over 90%
of the population increase here. That's right 90% over the last ten
years.
Now, with all those dumb assed, poor Mexicans coming in, don't you
think the gap would increase between 'rich and poor'? Duh..
And by the way, 100K or more a year is not rich, it's just someone who
works hard to provide for his family.
Tom Shelly, White God
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.520 / Virus Database: 318 - Release Date: 9/19/2003
Super Duty
2003-09-27 23:21:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by torresD
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
-----------------
torresD,

It's now time for you to find a better country to immigrate to. The USA
sucks, so why don't you leave now, say, for Cuba? Go, baby, go!
ahlahan
2003-09-27 23:32:48 UTC
Permalink
Oh not GOD forbid! And give up her Novelas , Internet & Marlboro lights &
Colt 45 ???!
People like this bitch need to be given a ration card . 1 TV channell
boambarding them with propaganda and NO contact with the rest of the world.
Post by Super Duty
Post by torresD
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
-----------------
torresD,
It's now time for you to find a better country to immigrate to. The USA
sucks, so why don't you leave now, say, for Cuba? Go, baby, go!
J R-S
2003-09-27 23:51:24 UTC
Permalink
At least, the poor in Cuba have all that and free education and free medical
attention.

The poor en the US of A are humping the streets either homeless or selling
their bodies cheap.
Other poor people in the USA joined the army to avoid the streets and ended
up getting killed in Iraq for no fucking reason.

Yeap, the strength of a country shall not be measured by its richest person
but by its poor.

jrs
Post by ahlahan
Oh not GOD forbid! And give up her Novelas , Internet & Marlboro lights &
Colt 45 ???!
People like this bitch need to be given a ration card . 1 TV channell
boambarding them with propaganda and NO contact with the rest of the world.
Post by Super Duty
Post by torresD
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
-----------------
torresD,
It's now time for you to find a better country to immigrate to. The USA
sucks, so why don't you leave now, say, for Cuba? Go, baby, go!
Super Duty
2003-09-28 01:09:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by J R-S
At least, the poor in Cuba have all that and free education and free medical
attention.
The poor en the US of A are humping the streets either homeless or selling
their bodies cheap.
-------------------

Hey Jaime, what are you doing to make the country better? Maybe you ought
to emigrate, again. You already did it once from Puerto Rico to the
continent. What's wrong with you going to Cuba?

Put your money where your mouth is, amigo.
J R-S
2003-09-28 03:05:43 UTC
Permalink
OK my dear friend or should I say, White Wanabe?
Listen, the only reason I don't go to Cuba is because I will die in Puerto
Rico. I am also a US cityzen and I will use that to my advantage. I didn't
ask for it, never sworn to any stupid flag.

As long as Puerto Rico is a US colony, you are just going to have to deal
with us, EVERY WHERE WE WANT TO FUCKING GO.

jrs
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
At least, the poor in Cuba have all that and free education and free
medical
Post by J R-S
attention.
The poor en the US of A are humping the streets either homeless or selling
their bodies cheap.
-------------------
Hey Jaime, what are you doing to make the country better? Maybe you ought
to emigrate, again. You already did it once from Puerto Rico to the
continent. What's wrong with you going to Cuba?
Put your money where your mouth is, amigo.
Jorobillo Jiribilla
2003-09-28 05:23:44 UTC
Permalink
This is not good! I think JRS is blowing his top, gasket and all. I hope his
wife or somebody else has the presence of mind to fill up his hollow skull
with ice or the metal plate might go into a meltdown and sink right through
his asshole into the ground, or even worse, go critical and level the whole
neighborhood...

P.S.: For those of you unfamiliar with JRS's background, legend has it that
he suffered a catastrophic mishap (some people even go so far as to
speculate it was his birth) in which he lost most of his brain and the top
of his skull, later replaced by a radioactive metal plate. He can't help
being so incoherent.
Post by J R-S
OK my dear friend or should I say, White Wanabe?
Listen, the only reason I don't go to Cuba is because I will die in Puerto
Rico. I am also a US cityzen and I will use that to my advantage. I didn't
ask for it, never sworn to any stupid flag.
As long as Puerto Rico is a US colony, you are just going to have to deal
with us, EVERY WHERE WE WANT TO FUCKING GO.
jrs
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
At least, the poor in Cuba have all that and free education and free
medical
Post by J R-S
attention.
The poor en the US of A are humping the streets either homeless or
selling
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
their bodies cheap.
-------------------
Hey Jaime, what are you doing to make the country better? Maybe you ought
to emigrate, again. You already did it once from Puerto Rico to the
continent. What's wrong with you going to Cuba?
Put your money where your mouth is, amigo.
pedro martori
2003-09-28 06:17:09 UTC
Permalink
TURPID AND HYPOCRITE EXCUSES...
ARE NOT VALID...ANSWER THE QUESTION...!
Post by J R-S
OK my dear friend or should I say, White Wanabe?
Listen, the only reason I don't go to Cuba is because I will die in Puerto
Rico. I am also a US cityzen and I will use that to my advantage. I didn't
ask for it, never sworn to any stupid flag.
As long as Puerto Rico is a US colony, you are just going to have to deal
with us, EVERY WHERE WE WANT TO FUCKING GO.
jrs
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
At least, the poor in Cuba have all that and free education and free
medical
Post by J R-S
attention.
The poor en the US of A are humping the streets either homeless or
selling
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
their bodies cheap.
-------------------
Hey Jaime, what are you doing to make the country better? Maybe you ought
to emigrate, again. You already did it once from Puerto Rico to the
continent. What's wrong with you going to Cuba?
Put your money where your mouth is, amigo.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.520 / Virus Database: 318 - Release Date: 9/19/2003
J R-S
2003-09-28 12:52:58 UTC
Permalink
What was the question gusano?
And see if you can find the answer to the question, it is right there...

jrs
Post by pedro martori
TURPID AND HYPOCRITE EXCUSES...
ARE NOT VALID...ANSWER THE QUESTION...!
Post by J R-S
OK my dear friend or should I say, White Wanabe?
Listen, the only reason I don't go to Cuba is because I will die in Puerto
Rico. I am also a US cityzen and I will use that to my advantage. I
didn't
Post by J R-S
ask for it, never sworn to any stupid flag.
As long as Puerto Rico is a US colony, you are just going to have to deal
with us, EVERY WHERE WE WANT TO FUCKING GO.
jrs
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
At least, the poor in Cuba have all that and free education and free
medical
Post by J R-S
attention.
The poor en the US of A are humping the streets either homeless or
selling
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
their bodies cheap.
-------------------
Hey Jaime, what are you doing to make the country better? Maybe you
ought
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
to emigrate, again. You already did it once from Puerto Rico to the
continent. What's wrong with you going to Cuba?
Put your money where your mouth is, amigo.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.520 / Virus Database: 318 - Release Date: 9/19/2003
pedro martori
2003-09-28 19:38:39 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for calling me gusano...you can't even think how much proud of it I am...shit head !

The question ? ...ja-jaime.. THE QUESTION IS this :

RIGHT HERE :

Hey Jaime, what are you doing to make the country better? Maybe you ought
to emigrate, again. You already did it once from Puerto Rico to the
continent. What's wrong with you going to Cuba?
=================================================
Post by J R-S
What was the question gusano?
And see if you can find the answer to the question, it is right there...
jrs
Post by pedro martori
TURPID AND HYPOCRITE EXCUSES...
ARE NOT VALID...ANSWER THE QUESTION...!
Post by J R-S
OK my dear friend or should I say, White Wanabe?
Listen, the only reason I don't go to Cuba is because I will die in
Puerto
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
Rico. I am also a US cityzen and I will use that to my advantage. I
didn't
Post by J R-S
ask for it, never sworn to any stupid flag.
As long as Puerto Rico is a US colony, you are just going to have to
deal
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
with us, EVERY WHERE WE WANT TO FUCKING GO.
jrs
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
At least, the poor in Cuba have all that and free education and free
medical
Post by J R-S
attention.
The poor en the US of A are humping the streets either homeless or
selling
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
their bodies cheap.
-------------------
Hey Jaime, what are you doing to make the country better? Maybe you
ought
Post by J R-S
Post by J R-S
to emigrate, again. You already did it once from Puerto Rico to the
continent. What's wrong with you going to Cuba?
Put your money where your mouth is, amigo.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.520 / Virus Database: 318 - Release Date: 9/19/2003
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.521 / Virus Database: 319 - Release Date: 9/23/2003
torresD
2003-09-29 03:34:53 UTC
Permalink
"pedro martori"


What's wrong with you going to Cuba?

Pay Jamie's fare, hotel, to Cuba.

Comemierda,Pedrito!
nobody
2003-09-29 03:47:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by torresD
"pedro martori"
What's wrong with you going to Cuba?
You mean other than your grammar?
J R-S
2003-09-29 12:22:30 UTC
Permalink
I don't need a hotel. There are quit a few friends, all marine biologists
or engineers, that will give me shelter for a few months. The fare has to
be to Jamaica or the Dom. Republic because in the land of the "free" is
illegal to go to Cuba.
Post by torresD
"pedro martori"
What's wrong with you going to Cuba?
Pay Jamie's fare, hotel, to Cuba.
Comemierda,Pedrito!
Super Duty
2003-10-01 01:23:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by J R-S
I don't need a hotel. There are quit a few friends, all marine biologists
or engineers, that will give me shelter for a few months. The fare has to
be to Jamaica or the Dom. Republic because in the land of the "free" is
illegal to go to Cuba.
---------------------
You are a fucking dork! Can you tell us what "quit friends" are? And it
is spelled "immigrant" not "inmigrant" like you have done on several of your
postings.

This is the land of the free, it allows idiots and dorks like you to run
free amongst the descent folks. You need to stop talking shit. We know
that you have no friends in Cuba or in the US or in Puerto Rico. Who the
hell do you think you are fooling?
J R-S
2003-10-01 12:10:06 UTC
Permalink
OK, if you say so, you win.

jrs
Post by Super Duty
Post by J R-S
I don't need a hotel. There are quit a few friends, all marine biologists
or engineers, that will give me shelter for a few months. The fare has to
be to Jamaica or the Dom. Republic because in the land of the "free" is
illegal to go to Cuba.
---------------------
You are a fucking dork! Can you tell us what "quit friends" are? And it
is spelled "immigrant" not "inmigrant" like you have done on several of your
postings.
This is the land of the free, it allows idiots and dorks like you to run
free amongst the descent folks. You need to stop talking shit. We know
that you have no friends in Cuba or in the US or in Puerto Rico. Who the
hell do you think you are fooling?
Super Duty
2003-10-01 21:31:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by J R-S
OK, if you say so, you win.
-------------------
Take a hike, you retard.
Super Duty
2003-10-01 01:15:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by torresD
"pedro martori"
What's wrong with you going to Cuba?
Pay Jamie's fare, hotel, to Cuba.
Comemierda,Pedrito!
-------------------------------------

My Spanish translator told me that you just invited Pedrito to share your
dinner with him, is that right?
Super Duty
2003-09-28 12:00:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by J R-S
OK my dear friend or should I say, White Wanabe?
Listen, the only reason I don't go to Cuba is because I will die in Puerto
Rico. I am also a US cityzen and I will use that to my advantage. I didn't
ask for it, never sworn to any stupid flag.
As long as Puerto Rico is a US colony, you are just going to have to deal
with us, EVERY WHERE WE WANT TO FUCKING GO.
-----------------------

You say you never swore allegiance to any flag? You are "SO FULL OF SHIT!"
The shit oozes out of both sides of you mouth. (Grab the Charmin!) Did you
forget that you posted on this newsgroup that you served in Korea in the US
Army and in the US Army ROTC in college? You served without swearing
allegiance?????? Yeah right!

You are a fucking liar señor. You have been exposed as a "FUCKING LIAR!"
Are all Puerto Ricans liars like you or just those that are like you?
J R-S
2003-09-28 13:03:53 UTC
Permalink
How old are you. You sound like a poor father-in-law that his daughter
called him in the middle of the night telling him that her Puerto Rican
husband had it too big.
Or maybe you are someone that a Puerto Rican banged his wife or sister.

Stop the complaints about Puerto Ricans. I can say the same about blacks if
I took your intelligence, or lack of it, as an example of Afro-American
intelligence.

Just so happens that I admire Afro-Americans and always argue the
superiority of that race. Coming from a slavery background yet achieving so
many thing in that same country that enslaved them. Nevertheless, there are
exceptions to the norm. You are probably a descendant of a housekeeper that
thought to be better than the other blacks.

And for my pledge of aliangiance to the flag when I join the Army. Yes, I
did but guess what? I was already a citizen. I am talking about not having
to swear allegiance to the flag to become a citizen. How dumb can someone
be?

LISTEN, LISTEN, DO YOU WANT AN EXAMPLE OF SHEER STUPIDITY? I GIVE YOU MR.
SUPER DUTY!

NOW LETS ALL GIVE A ROUND OF APPLAUSE TO MR. SUPER DUTY, THE BLACK THAT IS
ASHAMED TO SAY THAT HE IS NOT WHITE...

jrs
Post by Super Duty
Post by J R-S
OK my dear friend or should I say, White Wanabe?
Listen, the only reason I don't go to Cuba is because I will die in Puerto
Rico. I am also a US cityzen and I will use that to my advantage. I
didn't
Post by J R-S
ask for it, never sworn to any stupid flag.
As long as Puerto Rico is a US colony, you are just going to have to deal
with us, EVERY WHERE WE WANT TO FUCKING GO.
-----------------------
You say you never swore allegiance to any flag? You are "SO FULL OF SHIT!"
The shit oozes out of both sides of you mouth. (Grab the Charmin!) Did you
forget that you posted on this newsgroup that you served in Korea in the US
Army and in the US Army ROTC in college? You served without swearing
allegiance?????? Yeah right!
You are a fucking liar señor. You have been exposed as a "FUCKING LIAR!"
Are all Puerto Ricans liars like you or just those that are like you?
Jorobillo Jiribilla
2003-09-28 17:18:51 UTC
Permalink
"J R-S" <***@X100.pre> wrote in message news:k_Adb.670$***@bignews6.bellsouth.net...

<zapped blubbery blobs of bullshit >
Post by J R-S
LISTEN, LISTEN, DO YOU WANT AN EXAMPLE OF SHEER STUPIDITY? I GIVE YOU MR.
SUPER DUTY!
WE DON'T NEED ANY SAMPLES! WE'VE GOT YOU, THE ORIGINAL!

<CHOP!>
Post by J R-S
jrs
Post by Super Duty
Post by J R-S
OK my dear friend or should I say, White Wanabe?
Listen, the only reason I don't go to Cuba is because I will die in
Puerto
Post by Super Duty
Post by J R-S
Rico. I am also a US cityzen and I will use that to my advantage. I
didn't
Post by J R-S
ask for it, never sworn to any stupid flag.
As long as Puerto Rico is a US colony, you are just going to have to
deal
Post by Super Duty
Post by J R-S
with us, EVERY WHERE WE WANT TO FUCKING GO.
-----------------------
You say you never swore allegiance to any flag? You are "SO FULL OF
SHIT!"
Post by Super Duty
The shit oozes out of both sides of you mouth. (Grab the Charmin!) Did
you
Post by Super Duty
forget that you posted on this newsgroup that you served in Korea in the
US
Post by Super Duty
Army and in the US Army ROTC in college? You served without swearing
allegiance?????? Yeah right!
You are a fucking liar señor. You have been exposed as a "FUCKING LIAR!"
Are all Puerto Ricans liars like you or just those that are like you?
Super Duty
2003-10-01 01:24:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by J R-S
How old are you. You sound like a poor father-in-law that his daughter
called him in the middle of the night telling him that her Puerto Rican
husband had it too big.
-------------------

You definitely are a moron. Are you a human being or a lower class animal?
J R-S
2003-10-01 12:10:45 UTC
Permalink
Got it right, didn't I? lol

jrs
Post by Super Duty
Post by J R-S
How old are you. You sound like a poor father-in-law that his daughter
called him in the middle of the night telling him that her Puerto Rican
husband had it too big.
-------------------
You definitely are a moron. Are you a human being or a lower class animal?
Super Duty
2003-10-01 21:33:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by J R-S
Got it right, didn't I? lol
-------------------
Are you still getting goosed? I was just wondering since you are still LOL.
Ruhig
2003-09-28 03:41:55 UTC
Permalink
Ruhig
Post by J R-S
At least, the poor in Cuba have all that and free education and free medical
attention.
These people use their head only to wear sombreros. Education, ignoramous,
was always free in Cuba, long before the Communist Military Dictatorship.
And the only free medical attentions they get is the medicine the exiled
Cubans send them, they are free to them, but paid by their relatives.
Post by J R-S
The poor en the US of A are humping the streets either homeless or selling
their bodies cheap.
Gad, what an asshole. Some hookers here live a life that you wish you could
sell yourself for. Cuban jineteras and pingueros have to sell their body for
a lunch. That is cheap! Maybe you have better rates.
Post by J R-S
Other poor people in the USA joined the army to avoid the streets and ended
up getting killed in Iraq for no fucking reason.
Sure, sure, sure. Do you know how many Cubans died in Angola, Ethiopia, as
mercenary soldiers for the defunct Soviet Union, that in hell rests.
Post by J R-S
Yeap, the strength of a country shall not be measured by its richest person
but by its poor.
ahlahan
2003-09-28 03:52:24 UTC
Permalink
Hey another dumb ass brainwashed "I wouldnt understand education and medical
care if they bit me in my pimply ass"
Free education where you have to pay for your degree or do 4 years of "free
labor" and you must be at the beck & call of the "party" until the "party"
decides when it is ok to allow you to leave the country. Free education to
sell you body for $10 a night to a 70 year old spaniard so you can eat. Free
education so you can talk to the passengers in your taxi in 4 languages.
Free education so you can discus Proust with the turists youre serving at
the foreigners only hotel.
Free medical attention by someone whos knowledge of medicine is so
anticuated they still prescribe medicine that has been banned in all the
civilized countries for over a decade. Free medical attention by someone who
was fucking foreigners the night before so she could make enough money to
live. Free medical attention in hospital;s with no water, no electricity ,
toilets overflowing and shitspreading into the waiting rooms.
Free medical attention getting up at 3AM for a week in a row and hoping you
will be able to get an appointmenet for a month hence so someone will look
at your hemorroids.


What is most interesting of these revolution defendants is that NONE of them
LIVE in CUBA !

Wouldnt it be great to see ONE post from ONE Cuban in his house in el
Vedado o Jatibonico saying " wowh I LOVE IT HERE!" Why THE FUCK everyday
Cubans dont have access to these topics ?
Answer me THAT ASSHOLE!
Post by J R-S
At least, the poor in Cuba have all that and free education and free medical
attention.
The poor en the US of A are humping the streets either homeless or selling
their bodies cheap.
Other poor people in the USA joined the army to avoid the streets and ended
up getting killed in Iraq for no fucking reason.
Yeap, the strength of a country shall not be measured by its richest person
but by its poor.
jrs
Post by ahlahan
Oh not GOD forbid! And give up her Novelas , Internet & Marlboro lights &
Colt 45 ???!
People like this bitch need to be given a ration card . 1 TV channell
boambarding them with propaganda and NO contact with the rest of the
world.
Post by ahlahan
Post by Super Duty
Post by torresD
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
-----------------
torresD,
It's now time for you to find a better country to immigrate to. The
USA
Post by ahlahan
Post by Super Duty
sucks, so why don't you leave now, say, for Cuba? Go, baby, go!
J R-S
2003-09-28 12:47:58 UTC
Permalink
Americans do all those things, Do they get free college tuition?

jrs
Post by ahlahan
Hey another dumb ass brainwashed "I wouldnt understand education and medical
care if they bit me in my pimply ass"
Free education where you have to pay for your degree or do 4 years of "free
labor" and you must be at the beck & call of the "party" until the "party"
decides when it is ok to allow you to leave the country. Free education to
sell you body for $10 a night to a 70 year old spaniard so you can eat. Free
education so you can talk to the passengers in your taxi in 4 languages.
Free education so you can discus Proust with the turists youre serving at
the foreigners only hotel.
Free medical attention by someone whos knowledge of medicine is so
anticuated they still prescribe medicine that has been banned in all the
civilized countries for over a decade. Free medical attention by someone who
was fucking foreigners the night before so she could make enough money to
live. Free medical attention in hospital;s with no water, no electricity ,
toilets overflowing and shitspreading into the waiting rooms.
Free medical attention getting up at 3AM for a week in a row and hoping you
will be able to get an appointmenet for a month hence so someone will look
at your hemorroids.
What is most interesting of these revolution defendants is that NONE of them
LIVE in CUBA !
Wouldnt it be great to see ONE post from ONE Cuban in his house in el
Vedado o Jatibonico saying " wowh I LOVE IT HERE!" Why THE FUCK everyday
Cubans dont have access to these topics ?
Answer me THAT ASSHOLE!
Post by J R-S
At least, the poor in Cuba have all that and free education and free
medical
Post by J R-S
attention.
The poor en the US of A are humping the streets either homeless or selling
their bodies cheap.
Other poor people in the USA joined the army to avoid the streets and
ended
Post by J R-S
up getting killed in Iraq for no fucking reason.
Yeap, the strength of a country shall not be measured by its richest
person
Post by J R-S
but by its poor.
jrs
Post by ahlahan
Oh not GOD forbid! And give up her Novelas , Internet & Marlboro
lights
Post by ahlahan
&
Post by J R-S
Post by ahlahan
Colt 45 ???!
People like this bitch need to be given a ration card . 1 TV channell
boambarding them with propaganda and NO contact with the rest of the
world.
Post by ahlahan
Post by Super Duty
Post by torresD
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
-----------------
torresD,
It's now time for you to find a better country to immigrate to.
The
Post by ahlahan
Post by J R-S
USA
Post by ahlahan
Post by Super Duty
sucks, so why don't you leave now, say, for Cuba? Go, baby, go!
pedro martori
2003-09-28 06:15:21 UTC
Permalink
ubans have paid more than what you claim they have received..
they paid in blood...50,000 deads.
15,000 in the paredones...
20,000 at sea...fleeing the gulag.
10,000 in war all over Africa, Latin America etc.

they have paid with "voluntary work" no retribution for
MILLIONS OF MAN-HOUS OF WORK....for the tyrann master of the slaves:
KaSStro.

they also have paid with a 44 years of rationning.

and since 1990 they pay with their work in foreign countries..
also working for pesos..in Cuba while the master of slaves get the payments
inDOLLARS..

SO MUCH FOR EDUCATION AND HEALTH THAT ARE AND HAVE NOT BEEN FREE AT ALL.!
Post by J R-S
At least, the poor in Cuba have all that and free education and free medical
attention.
The poor en the US of A are humping the streets either homeless or selling
their bodies cheap.
Other poor people in the USA joined the army to avoid the streets and ended
up getting killed in Iraq for no fucking reason.
Yeap, the strength of a country shall not be measured by its richest person
but by its poor.
jrs
Post by ahlahan
Oh not GOD forbid! And give up her Novelas , Internet & Marlboro lights &
Colt 45 ???!
People like this bitch need to be given a ration card . 1 TV channell
boambarding them with propaganda and NO contact with the rest of the
world.
Post by ahlahan
Post by Super Duty
Post by torresD
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
-----------------
torresD,
It's now time for you to find a better country to immigrate to. The
USA
Post by ahlahan
Post by Super Duty
sucks, so why don't you leave now, say, for Cuba? Go, baby, go!
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.520 / Virus Database: 318 - Release Date: 9/19/2003
J R-S
2003-09-28 12:51:55 UTC
Permalink
Only 50,000 of 11 millions?

Puerto Ricans had paid dearer then!

Do you have the exact numbers of PRs that died in WWI, WWII, Korea, Viet
Nam, Afganistan, Iraq? Plus, those dying of cancer now in Vieques, those
that died of cancer in Rincon, and those that suffered and died of
infections due to Agent Orange in Luquillo?

And we still have to pay for education

jrs
Post by pedro martori
ubans have paid more than what you claim they have received..
they paid in blood...50,000 deads.
15,000 in the paredones...
20,000 at sea...fleeing the gulag.
10,000 in war all over Africa, Latin America etc.
they have paid with "voluntary work" no retribution for
KaSStro.
they also have paid with a 44 years of rationning.
and since 1990 they pay with their work in foreign countries..
also working for pesos..in Cuba while the master of slaves get the payments
inDOLLARS..
SO MUCH FOR EDUCATION AND HEALTH THAT ARE AND HAVE NOT BEEN FREE AT ALL.!
Post by J R-S
At least, the poor in Cuba have all that and free education and free
medical
Post by J R-S
attention.
The poor en the US of A are humping the streets either homeless or selling
their bodies cheap.
Other poor people in the USA joined the army to avoid the streets and
ended
Post by J R-S
up getting killed in Iraq for no fucking reason.
Yeap, the strength of a country shall not be measured by its richest
person
Post by J R-S
but by its poor.
jrs
Post by ahlahan
Oh not GOD forbid! And give up her Novelas , Internet & Marlboro
lights
Post by pedro martori
&
Post by J R-S
Post by ahlahan
Colt 45 ???!
People like this bitch need to be given a ration card . 1 TV channell
boambarding them with propaganda and NO contact with the rest of the
world.
Post by ahlahan
Post by Super Duty
Post by torresD
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
-----------------
torresD,
It's now time for you to find a better country to immigrate to.
The
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
USA
Post by ahlahan
Post by Super Duty
sucks, so why don't you leave now, say, for Cuba? Go, baby, go!
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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Observador
2003-09-28 14:15:59 UTC
Permalink
WE Puerto Ricans WANT to be a Part Of The United States, The
Puerto Ricans VOLUNTEER TO BE IN THE Armed forces.
The "Bull shit story of Cancer in Vieques is exactly that, Bull Shit.
The numbers when examined properly shows no higher rate than
the rest of the Island as A whole......The Rates in Vieques and Culebra
reflect the fact that there are no Cancer treatment centers in neither
Island and the residents have to go to the mailand Island to recieve
treatment.
We the Puerto Rican people election after election has shown the will to be
associated with the United Sates as a Colony or aspiering for Statehood.
INDEPENCE HAS BEEN RELEGATED TO THE LATRINE OF HISTORY
IN PUERTO RICO.
Post by J R-S
Only 50,000 of 11 millions?
Puerto Ricans had paid dearer then!
Do you have the exact numbers of PRs that died in WWI, WWII, Korea, Viet
Nam, Afganistan, Iraq? Plus, those dying of cancer now in Vieques, those
that died of cancer in Rincon, and those that suffered and died of
infections due to Agent Orange in Luquillo?
And we still have to pay for education
jrs
Post by pedro martori
ubans have paid more than what you claim they have received..
they paid in blood...50,000 deads.
15,000 in the paredones...
20,000 at sea...fleeing the gulag.
10,000 in war all over Africa, Latin America etc.
they have paid with "voluntary work" no retribution for
KaSStro.
they also have paid with a 44 years of rationning.
and since 1990 they pay with their work in foreign countries..
also working for pesos..in Cuba while the master of slaves get the
payments
Post by pedro martori
inDOLLARS..
SO MUCH FOR EDUCATION AND HEALTH THAT ARE AND HAVE NOT BEEN FREE AT ALL.!
Post by J R-S
At least, the poor in Cuba have all that and free education and free
medical
Post by J R-S
attention.
The poor en the US of A are humping the streets either homeless or
selling
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
their bodies cheap.
Other poor people in the USA joined the army to avoid the streets and
ended
Post by J R-S
up getting killed in Iraq for no fucking reason.
Yeap, the strength of a country shall not be measured by its richest
person
Post by J R-S
but by its poor.
jrs
Post by ahlahan
Oh not GOD forbid! And give up her Novelas , Internet & Marlboro
lights
Post by pedro martori
&
Post by J R-S
Post by ahlahan
Colt 45 ???!
People like this bitch need to be given a ration card . 1 TV channell
boambarding them with propaganda and NO contact with the rest of the
world.
Post by ahlahan
Post by Super Duty
Post by torresD
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
-----------------
torresD,
It's now time for you to find a better country to immigrate to.
The
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
USA
Post by ahlahan
Post by Super Duty
sucks, so why don't you leave now, say, for Cuba? Go, baby, go!
---
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J R-S
2003-09-29 00:22:51 UTC
Permalink
Before anyone goes believing the junk this man posted here, here is a few
sites you can check...
http://cndyorks.gn.apc.org/caab/articles/vieques242.htm
http://www.forusa.org/Programs/puertorico/PR_Update_1002-2.html

jrs
Post by Observador
WE Puerto Ricans WANT to be a Part Of The United States, The
Puerto Ricans VOLUNTEER TO BE IN THE Armed forces.
The "Bull shit story of Cancer in Vieques is exactly that, Bull Shit.
The numbers when examined properly shows no higher rate than
the rest of the Island as A whole......The Rates in Vieques and Culebra
reflect the fact that there are no Cancer treatment centers in neither
Island and the residents have to go to the mailand Island to recieve
treatment.
We the Puerto Rican people election after election has shown the will to be
associated with the United Sates as a Colony or aspiering for Statehood.
INDEPENCE HAS BEEN RELEGATED TO THE LATRINE OF HISTORY
IN PUERTO RICO.
Post by J R-S
Only 50,000 of 11 millions?
Puerto Ricans had paid dearer then!
Do you have the exact numbers of PRs that died in WWI, WWII, Korea, Viet
Nam, Afganistan, Iraq? Plus, those dying of cancer now in Vieques, those
that died of cancer in Rincon, and those that suffered and died of
infections due to Agent Orange in Luquillo?
And we still have to pay for education
jrs
Post by pedro martori
ubans have paid more than what you claim they have received..
they paid in blood...50,000 deads.
15,000 in the paredones...
20,000 at sea...fleeing the gulag.
10,000 in war all over Africa, Latin America etc.
they have paid with "voluntary work" no retribution for
KaSStro.
they also have paid with a 44 years of rationning.
and since 1990 they pay with their work in foreign countries..
also working for pesos..in Cuba while the master of slaves get the
payments
Post by pedro martori
inDOLLARS..
SO MUCH FOR EDUCATION AND HEALTH THAT ARE AND HAVE NOT BEEN FREE AT ALL.!
Post by J R-S
At least, the poor in Cuba have all that and free education and free
medical
Post by J R-S
attention.
The poor en the US of A are humping the streets either homeless or
selling
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
their bodies cheap.
Other poor people in the USA joined the army to avoid the streets and
ended
Post by J R-S
up getting killed in Iraq for no fucking reason.
Yeap, the strength of a country shall not be measured by its richest
person
Post by J R-S
but by its poor.
jrs
Post by ahlahan
Oh not GOD forbid! And give up her Novelas , Internet & Marlboro
lights
Post by pedro martori
&
Post by J R-S
Post by ahlahan
Colt 45 ???!
People like this bitch need to be given a ration card . 1 TV channell
boambarding them with propaganda and NO contact with the rest of the
world.
Post by ahlahan
Post by Super Duty
Post by torresD
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
-----------------
torresD,
It's now time for you to find a better country to immigrate to.
The
Post by pedro martori
Post by J R-S
USA
Post by ahlahan
Post by Super Duty
sucks, so why don't you leave now, say, for Cuba? Go, baby, go!
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Super Duty
2003-10-01 23:27:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by J R-S
Before anyone goes believing the junk this man posted here, here is a few
sites you can check...
----------------------------------

Look who is calling the kettle black! You think you are an authority on
everything when all you are is a moron!

The Devil's Advocate©
2003-09-29 05:07:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by J R-S
Yeap, the strength of a country shall not be measured by its richest person
but by its poor.
Yeah, and Castro solved poverty in Cuba by making everyone equally
poor.
J R-S
2003-09-29 12:23:47 UTC
Permalink
When you spread the wealth of a country into all its people, that is
normally the case. But, there will be no rich person above the law of the
land like in the US of A.

jrs
Post by The Devil's Advocate©
Post by J R-S
Yeap, the strength of a country shall not be measured by its richest person
but by its poor.
Yeah, and Castro solved poverty in Cuba by making everyone equally
poor.
The Devil's Advocate©
2003-09-30 05:53:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by J R-S
When you spread the wealth of a country into all its people, that is
normally the case.
When you take away profit incentive, you take away a person's
motivation to work harder than the next person. If I can produce 10
widgets an hour at leisure and John Doe right next to me is breaking a
sweat to produce 15 an hour, and I know that I will get the same pay
as John Doe does if I produce 10, what is my incentive to work harder?
And if some other guy routinely calls in sick 2 days a week and still
gets a guaranteed income equal to mine, how much of a motivator is
that going to be to work hard?

Communism sucks.
J R-S
2003-09-30 13:12:45 UTC
Permalink
The motivator is the Peace of mind that brings having the economical
problems taken care of.
Just imagine yourself without having to worry obout your medical insurance,
which BTW sucks in the USA, education for your kids, trouble finding a job,
etc...

Everyone is equal in Cuba. The bartender as well as the doctor have to go
and cut sugar-cane in Cuba. No one is better than anyone. Everyone has to
work the same.

jrs
Post by The Devil's Advocate©
Post by J R-S
When you spread the wealth of a country into all its people, that is
normally the case.
When you take away profit incentive, you take away a person's
motivation to work harder than the next person. If I can produce 10
widgets an hour at leisure and John Doe right next to me is breaking a
sweat to produce 15 an hour, and I know that I will get the same pay
as John Doe does if I produce 10, what is my incentive to work harder?
And if some other guy routinely calls in sick 2 days a week and still
gets a guaranteed income equal to mine, how much of a motivator is
that going to be to work hard?
Communism sucks.
Super Duty
2003-10-01 23:18:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by J R-S
When you spread the wealth of a country into all its people, that is
normally the case.
---------------------

Why do you respond in a sensible manner to this moron's postings?
torresD
2003-09-28 01:08:11 UTC
Permalink
I don't drink alcohol, don't smoke and don't watch Novelas.
Post by ahlahan
Oh not GOD forbid! And give up her Novelas , Internet & Marlboro lights &
Colt 45 ???!
People like this bitch need to be given a ration card . 1 TV channell
boambarding them with propaganda and NO contact with the rest of the world.
Post by Super Duty
Post by torresD
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
-----------------
torresD,
It's now time for you to find a better country to immigrate to. The USA
sucks, so why don't you leave now, say, for Cuba? Go, baby, go!
Super Duty
2003-09-28 01:44:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by torresD
I don't drink alcohol, don't smoke and don't watch Novelas.
-----------------
Now that we know you don do those things,
Do you masturbate?
Do you like sex?
Do you like men?
Will Bennifer get married?
Do you feel at home in the US of A?
Ruhig
2003-09-28 03:43:57 UTC
Permalink
Ruhig
Post by torresD
I don't drink alcohol, don't smoke and don't watch Novelas.
You should. You would be happier than writing these bitter diatribes.
ahlahan
2003-09-28 04:07:12 UTC
Permalink
Pot head are you ?
Post by torresD
I don't drink alcohol, don't smoke and don't watch Novelas.
Post by ahlahan
Oh not GOD forbid! And give up her Novelas , Internet & Marlboro lights &
Colt 45 ???!
People like this bitch need to be given a ration card . 1 TV channell
boambarding them with propaganda and NO contact with the rest of the
world.
Post by ahlahan
Post by Super Duty
Post by torresD
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
-----------------
torresD,
It's now time for you to find a better country to immigrate to. The
USA
Post by ahlahan
Post by Super Duty
sucks, so why don't you leave now, say, for Cuba? Go, baby, go!
Jorobillo Jiribilla
2003-09-28 05:24:35 UTC
Permalink
I'm no doctor, but I think it might be pernicious PMS. Her hot flashes may
be so bad that they have fried her brain.
Post by ahlahan
Pot head are you ?
Post by torresD
I don't drink alcohol, don't smoke and don't watch Novelas.
Post by ahlahan
Oh not GOD forbid! And give up her Novelas , Internet & Marlboro
lights
Post by ahlahan
&
Post by torresD
Post by ahlahan
Colt 45 ???!
People like this bitch need to be given a ration card . 1 TV channell
boambarding them with propaganda and NO contact with the rest of the
world.
Post by ahlahan
Post by Super Duty
Post by torresD
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
-----------------
torresD,
It's now time for you to find a better country to immigrate to.
The
Post by ahlahan
Post by torresD
USA
Post by ahlahan
Post by Super Duty
sucks, so why don't you leave now, say, for Cuba? Go, baby, go!
pedro martori
2003-09-28 19:41:43 UTC
Permalink
Doris you better do...
perhaps that way you won't vomit all these bilis and fecal matters...
as you do in this group...

" Envy is ten thousand worse than the shrapnel of a grenade..."
Post by torresD
I don't drink alcohol, don't smoke and don't watch Novelas.
Post by ahlahan
Oh not GOD forbid! And give up her Novelas , Internet & Marlboro lights &
Colt 45 ???!
People like this bitch need to be given a ration card . 1 TV channell
boambarding them with propaganda and NO contact with the rest of the
world.
Post by ahlahan
Post by Super Duty
Post by torresD
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
-----------------
torresD,
It's now time for you to find a better country to immigrate to. The
USA
Post by ahlahan
Post by Super Duty
sucks, so why don't you leave now, say, for Cuba? Go, baby, go!
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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torresD
2003-09-29 02:47:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by pedro martori
Doris you better do...
perhaps that way you won't vomit all these bilis and fecal matters...
as you do in this group...
" Envy is ten thousand worse than the shrapnel of a grenade..."
La envidia mata, Pedrito.

Deja de envidiar a Fidel Castro por ser el hombre que tu nunca
podras ser.

No me gusto el liquor, ni el cigarillo.
Fidel Cagastro Pus
2003-09-29 22:27:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by torresD
Post by pedro martori
Doris you better do...
perhaps that way you won't vomit all these bilis and fecal matters...
as you do in this group...
" Envy is ten thousand worse than the shrapnel of a grenade..."
La envidia mata, Pedrito.
Deja de envidiar a Fidel Castro por ser el hombre que tu nunca
podras ser.
Se equivoca, mi querida tonta util! Todo el mundo llega a viejo.
Post by torresD
No me gusto el liquor, ni el cigarillo.
Tamakún
2003-09-30 17:50:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fidel Cagastro Pus
Se equivoca, mi querida tonta util! Todo el mundo llega a viejo.
Se equivoca Senyor tonto inútil, llegar a viejo es una hazaña,
los hijos de puta inteligentes, llegan a viejo, puesto que gritan de
lejos, Ejemplo; Pedro Martori,

Que grita desde el Canada y no desde el polo norte, por que se
le acabo la gasolina a la escoba en la que huia de Cuba,

Lo comico, fue que mientras corria despavorido delante de
Fidel, le gritaba,
Cobarde, pelea como los hombres, de
frente, no quemándome el culo mientras yo vuelo en esta maldita
escoba.

Cuantos conoces que no llegaron a los 40 anyos de edad. Sea
por enfermedad accidente o por estupidos?

Consejo: antes de abrir la boca y desmorecerte hablando
mierda, asegurate, que estas por lo menos a mas de 90 millas al norte
de Matanzas. Aquí, puedes hablar toda la mierda que quieras, y hasta
te lo celebran, ser anticastrista aquí, es un bacilón.

Tony El Gato.
========================
On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 18:27:25 -0400, "Fidel Cagastro Pus"
Post by Fidel Cagastro Pus
Post by torresD
Post by pedro martori
Doris you better do...
perhaps that way you won't vomit all these bilis and fecal matters...
as you do in this group...
" Envy is ten thousand worse than the shrapnel of a grenade..."
La envidia mata, Pedrito.
Deja de envidiar a Fidel Castro por ser el hombre que tu nunca
podras ser.
Se equivoca, mi querida tonta util! Todo el mundo llega a viejo.
Post by torresD
No me gusto el liquor, ni el cigarillo.
Fidel Cagastro Pus
2003-09-30 20:10:11 UTC
Permalink
Caballero, antes de contestar algunos de sus comentarios mas adelante, tengo
que amonestarle por hablar tanta mierda, ya que ese privilegio me pertenece
a mi, el caudillo supremo de la gloriosa Revolucion Cubana. Ya habiendo
aclarado tan importante detalle, sirvase de seguir leyendo y comiendo mas
mierda.
Post by Tamakún
Post by Fidel Cagastro Pus
Se equivoca, mi querida tonta util! Todo el mundo llega a viejo.
Se equivoca Senyor tonto inútil, llegar a viejo es una hazaña,
los hijos de puta inteligentes, llegan a viejo, puesto que gritan de
lejos, Ejemplo; Pedro Martori,
Usted es el que se equivoca, felino ingenuo, yo soy el mas claro ejemplo de
un hijo de puta que ha llegado a viejo, y no por sabio, sino por diablo.
Post by Tamakún
Que grita desde el Canada y no desde el polo norte, por que se
le acabo la gasolina a la escoba en la que huia de Cuba,
Lo comico, fue que mientras corria despavorido delante de
Fidel, le gritaba,
Cobarde, pelea como los hombres, de
frente, no quemándome el culo mientras yo vuelo en esta maldita
escoba.
Tal incidente es un mito y algun agente lacayo capitalista le tomo el pelo,
para incitarlo a hacer el ridiculo. Uno de mis primeros actos al tomar las
riendas del gobierno de Cuba fue proscribir el uso de esos infernales
vehiculos de brujas imperialistas, pues no falto mucho para que yo perdiera
mi vida, culo en llamas, montado en uno de ellos, durante mi retirada
tactica de los cuarteles Moncada, gritando a viva voz: "Condenadme, no
importa, la Historia me absolverá!" y "El coño de su madre y el
fusilamiento para el que sirva de testigo!".
Post by Tamakún
Cuantos conoces que no llegaron a los 40 anyos de edad.
La noble tarea de tiranizar a la Republica de Cuba es titanica! Como usted
pretende que yo me acuerde de los nombres de todos los miles de enemigos de
mi vetusta Revolucion, que he enviado al paredon?
Post by Tamakún
Sea por enfermedad accidente o por estupidos?
Es lamentable que usted tenga tan corta expectativa de vida estando tan
rebozante de salud, pero es solo un ejemplo mas de la perfidia del sistema
capitalista encabezado por el imperialista Bush!
Post by Tamakún
Consejo: antes de abrir la boca y desmorecerte hablando
mierda, asegurate, que estas por lo menos a mas de 90 millas al norte
de Matanzas.
Usted es un insolente, coño! Cuba es mi propiedad y aqui yo hablo la mierda
que me venga en gana y en las cantidades que se me antojen!
Post by Tamakún
Aquí, puedes hablar toda la mierda que quieras,
Eso es obvio, caballero, eso es obvio. Es por esa razon que me vi obligado a
amonestarle por pretender usurpar mi prerrogativa de ser el comemierda
maximo del planeta.
Post by Tamakún
y hasta te lo celebran, ser anticastrista aquí, es un bacilón.
A mis oidos han llegado infinidad de chistes subversivos que me hacen
sospechar que lo mismo sucede en Cuba, pero no he de descansar hasta
identificar y erradicar todos y cada uno de los traidores enemigos de mi
Revolucion!

El Coma-Andante Fifo
Post by Tamakún
Tony El Gato.
========================
On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 18:27:25 -0400, "Fidel Cagastro Pus"
Post by Fidel Cagastro Pus
Post by torresD
Post by pedro martori
Doris you better do...
perhaps that way you won't vomit all these bilis and fecal
matters...
Post by Tamakún
Post by Fidel Cagastro Pus
Post by torresD
Post by pedro martori
as you do in this group...
" Envy is ten thousand worse than the shrapnel of a grenade..."
La envidia mata, Pedrito.
Deja de envidiar a Fidel Castro por ser el hombre que tu nunca
podras ser.
Se equivoca, mi querida tonta util! Todo el mundo llega a viejo.
Post by torresD
No me gusto el liquor, ni el cigarillo.
pedro martori
2003-09-28 06:10:24 UTC
Permalink
I rather put her to live in a "solar" in the gulag..
Post by ahlahan
Oh not GOD forbid! And give up her Novelas , Internet & Marlboro lights &
Colt 45 ???!
People like this bitch need to be given a ration card . 1 TV channell
boambarding them with propaganda and NO contact with the rest of the world.
Post by Super Duty
Post by torresD
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
-----------------
torresD,
It's now time for you to find a better country to immigrate to. The USA
sucks, so why don't you leave now, say, for Cuba? Go, baby, go!
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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pedro martori
2003-09-28 06:09:31 UTC
Permalink
--
These man-hunts in Spain went on at the same time as the great
|| purges in the USSR and were a sort of supplement to them. In
|| Spain as well as in Russia the nature of the accusations (namely,
|| conspiracy with the Facists) was the same and as far as Spain was
|| concerned I had every reason to believe that the accusations were
|| false. To experience all this was a valuable object lesson: it
|| taught me how easily totalitarian propaganda can control the
|| opinion of enlightened people in democratic countries.
ORWELL
"LA REBELION DE LA GRANJA"
Post by Super Duty
Post by torresD
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
-----------------
torresD,
It's now time for you to find a better country to immigrate to. The USA
sucks, so why don't you leave now, say, for Cuba? Go, baby, go!
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Observador
2003-09-28 01:14:43 UTC
Permalink
Thank you Republican Party For Raising MY standard of Living.
Every time I see a homeless or a hungry family, I thank goodness
I'm a Republican conservative, living the life of Luxury, In a sem-manision
with plenty of food in my pantry and refrigerator, but to be honest we
usually eat out or have it catered.
God Bless America AND the American Dollar.
Post by torresD
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3138232.stm
US inequality gap widens
By Steve Schifferes
BBC News Online economics reporter
Money has to stretch further for most Americans
The gap between rich and poor in America
is the widest in 70 years, according to a new
study published by the Center for Budget
and Policy Priorities.
The research, based on newly released
figures from the non-partisan Congressional
Budget Office,
shows that the top 1% of Americans -
who earn an average of $862,000
each after tax (or $1.3m before tax) -
receive more money than the 110m
Americans in the bottom 40% of the
income distribution,
whose income averages $21,350 each year.
The income going to the richest 1% has
gone up threefold in real terms in the past
twenty years, while the income of the poorest
40% went up by a more modest 11%.
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
In 1979, the top 1% received just
7.5% of national income, compared
to 15.5% in 2000.
The share of the poorest 40%,
in contrast, declined from 19.1% to 14.6%.
Tax cuts and earnings
In fact, the share of income received by
bottom 80% of Americans declined in
the past twenty years.
INCOMES OF RICH AND POOR
Bottom 20%: 1979 - $12,600
2000 - $13,700
Middle 20%: 1979 - $36,400
2000 - $41,900
Top 20%: 1979: $84,000
2000: $141,400
Top 1%: 1979 $286,300
2000: $862,700
After-tax household income
source: Center for Budget and Policy Priorities, CBO.
Only the top fifth increased their share, with their real incomes going up
by 68%.
Much of the growth in income at the top
has come from the extraordinary growth
in executive pay,
coupled with strong earnings growth
among highly-educated professionals
like doctors and lawyers.
But changes in the tax system have also favoured the rich.
US INCOME DISTRIBUTION
Bottom 20%: 4.9%
Second 20%: 9.7%
Middle 20%: 14.6%
Fourth 20%: 20.2%
Top 20%: 51.3%
Top 1%: 15.5%
% share of total after-tax income
source: Center for Budget and Policy Priorities, CBO.
The effective Federal tax rate on the
top 1% dropped from 37% in 1979 to
33.2% in 2000.
The tax rate for the middle fifth of the
income distribution also went down,
but by less, from 18.6% to 16.7%.
The two big tax cuts passed by the
Bush administration in 2001 and 2003 -
which are not taken into account in this study -
will increase that inequality further.
According to the Urban Institute-Brookings
Tax Policy Center,
the top 1% will gain on
average 4.6% in after-tax income
(or $26,000 per household) while the
middle fifth of the population gains
only 2.6% ($676 per household).
The fall in the stock market since 2000,
however, has reduced the income of the rich.
Political debate
Rising inequality, and the growing budget deficit,
has sparked a debate among Democrats over
whether to repeal those tax cuts.
Two candidates on the left of the Democratic Party,
Howard Dean and Richard Gephardt,
advocate repealing all the tax cuts and
using the money on providing extra benefits,
like universal health care, instead.
But moderate Democrats want to
preserve tax cuts for middle-income
Americans.
"The middle class is stressed today,"
said Senator Joe Lieberman in a
recent Democratic presidential debate.
Republicans, meanwhile,
argue that giving more money to the rich
will encourage job creation and enrich
everyone in the end.
They point with pride to the growing number
of millionaires in the US, which demonstrates
that social mobility is still possible.
One factor in the political equation is that,
with a low turnout in most US elections,
the poor are much less likely to vote
than the better-off.
The CBPP study looked at after tax
incomes of the US population in 1979,
1989, and 2000, peaks of the economic
cycle, using new data on top incomes
released by the Congressional Budget Office.
A separate study by the National Bureau
for Economic Research studied the
income share of the top 1% from
1913 to the present.
torresD
2003-09-28 01:24:26 UTC
Permalink
"Observador" <***@obse.net
but to be honest we

"To be honest" you say, Observador?
So you admit that you have been dishonest
and that THIS time you're claming to be honest.



But the meanest blow is a new
co-payment for home health care,

which is used mostly by the oldest,
sickest and poorest patients who
are too frail to leave their beds.

"They'll have to come up with cash to
pay the fees [around $50] or lose the care,"

said Gottlich.
http://www.newsday.com/news/health/ny-saul3470635sep27,0,401108.column?coll=
GRAY MATTERS: Ideology and Meanness in Medicare Debate
September 27, 2003


Perhaps the best thing
Medicare's friends can hope for,
short of a political miracle,
is that the House-Senate conference
committee,

which is laboring on legislation to
provide a prescription drug benefit,
will come up with nothing.

For as it now stands,

any legislation that is likely to emerge
based on the bills passed in June by
the House and Senate would be
hopelessly inadequate,

too costly and too complicated
for most Medicare beneficiaries.

I doubt that the members of Congress
who are writing it could explain it to their
aging parents.

More important, the legislation is a kind
of pact with the devil, for the price of a
paltry drug benefit is the eventual privatization
and death of Medicare.

"We'd be better off with no bill at all,"

said Vicki Gottlich,

Washington representative for the
Center for Medicare Advocacy.

"As it now stands, the bill would privatize Medicare,
while cutting benefits, and sharply raising premiums
and co-payments."

Lobbyists for AARP,
who have a way of seeing the
glass half full when it's virtually dry,

say they are

"pleased with the progress of the bills,
but they still need improvement."

And AARP has launched a campaign
to urge members of Congress to "fix"
the bill and pass it.

But AARP's own analysis demonstrates that
the bills are unfixable unless hard-right
Republican leaders and Medicare's
opponents quit trying to kill the program,
or Democrats and Medicare advocates
retreat from their determination to save
the nation's only universal health insurance program.

There will be time for a closer
examination of the legislation as
the 17-member Conference Committee
plods on.

But the devils,
as AARP points out,
are not merely in the details.

There are vital issues of principle that
are the foundation of Medicare as a
universal social insurance program
serving 40 million elderly or disabled
Americans.

As polls and studies have found,
Medicare is the most successful and
popular health insurance program
because it's equally,

universally available anywhere in the
country to everyone older than 65 or
disabled, no matter their income.

The "reform" legislation would virtually
shut out benefits for the more affluent
while providing special consideration
for the very poor,

thus requiring means testing,
perhaps for every beneficiary,
for the first time in the program's history.

This would mean the end of universality.

Even so, there would be huge gaps in coverage.

In addition, the legislation would not
only encourage private insurance
companies to sell prescription drug
coverage,

the House version would help beneficiaries
pay the premiums to lure them to sign up
for a better deal with private insurance
and desert Medicare.

The intended result is the demise of Medicare,
which leaves health care for the nation's elderly
in the hands of dozens of private insurance and
drug companies.

While Medicare's opponents may take
cover in ideology in the debate over
these larger issues,

ideology can't explain the myriad
outrages buried in the 800 pages
of the legislation that would cost
the taxpayers unnecessary billions
and pick the pockets of the sickest
and oldest among us.

One extraordinary example is a provision
prohibiting the government from saving
money by using its buying power to
negotiate volume discounts with
drug companies to get the best
prices on drugs for beneficiaries.

Indeed, the legislation would exempt
drug companies from the cost controls
that govern every other Medicare provider -
doctors, hospitals and laboratories.

If you think that the $58 million in drug
company campaign contributions over
the past few years had anything to do
with the provision, shame on you.

Rep. Michael Bilirakis (R-Fla.),
who chairs the House Energy and
Commerce subcommittee on health,

told the New York Times that if
Medicare pooled its purchasing power,

it would amount to "a form of price controls.

That's not America."

Funny, but the VA health care system
routinely uses its buying power to negotiate
the best prices for the drugs it dispenses
to veterans and has saved the government
$100 million over the last two years.

Fact is,
the drug industry would not have
permitted any prescription benefit
to pass if it included cost controls.

And Bilirakis raked in $152,000
in drug company contributions.

Which means the drug industry
is getting what it paid for.

Now that's America.

Currently,
Medicare pays the entire cost of
clinical lab tests and home health
care ordered by a doctor and
approved by Medicare.

But Gottlich says the fine print of the Medicare
bill would require all beneficiaries to pay
20 percent of the often high costs of blood,
urine and other tests.

Beneficiaries without supplemental
coverage may be forced to make a choice -
pay or go without the tests that could save their lives.

The new co-payment,
which would likely drive up
the cost of supplemental policies,
will be on top of new premiums.

But the meanest blow is a new
co-payment for home health care,

which is used mostly by the oldest,
sickest and poorest patients who
are too frail toleave their beds.

"They'll have to come up with cash to
pay the fees [around $50] or lose the care,"

said Gottlich.

To its credit, AARP,
which usually tries to work out a
compromise, has drawn a line in
the sand.

In letters to House and Senate leaders, AARP chief
William Novelli protested the gaps in coverage,
the unfairness toward enrollees in traditional Medicare,
and the measures to privatize or introduce means
testing in Medicare.

And he said, if

"the final conference does more harm than good,
we will not hesitate to oppose it."

But some Medicare advocates worry
that lines in sand disappear as the
political winds
blow.

Write to Saul Friedman, Newsday, 235 Pinelawn Rd., Melville, NY, 11747-4250,
or by e-mail at ***@comcast.net.



http://www.newsday.com/news/health/ny-saul3470635sep27,0,401108.column?coll=
ny-health-headlines

GRAY MATTERS: Ideology and Meanness in Medicare Debate
September 27, 2003


Perhaps the best thing
Medicare's friends can hope for,
short of a political miracle,
is that the House-Senate conference
committee,

which is laboring on legislation to
provide a prescription drug benefit,
will come up with nothing.

For as it now stands,

any legislation that is likely to emerge
based on the bills passed in June by
the House and Senate would be
hopelessly inadequate,

too costly and too complicated
for most Medicare beneficiaries.

I doubt that the members of Congress
who are writing it could explain it to their
aging parents.

More important, the legislation is a kind
of pact with the devil, for the price of a
paltry drug benefit is the eventual privatization
and death of Medicare.

"We'd be better off with no bill at all,"

said Vicki Gottlich,

Washington representative for the
Center for Medicare Advocacy.

"As it now stands, the bill would privatize Medicare,
while cutting benefits, and sharply raising premiums
and co-payments."

Lobbyists for AARP,
who have a way of seeing the
glass half full when it's virtually dry,

say they are

"pleased with the progress of the bills,
but they still need improvement."

And AARP has launched a campaign
to urge members of Congress to "fix"
the bill and pass it.

But AARP's own analysis demonstrates that
the bills are unfixable unless hard-right
Republican leaders and Medicare's
opponents quit trying to kill the program,
or Democrats and Medicare advocates
retreat from their determination to save
the nation's only universal health insurance program.

There will be time for a closer
examination of the legislation as
the 17-member Conference Committee
plods on.

But the devils,
as AARP points out,
are not merely in the details.

There are vital issues of principle that
are the foundation of Medicare as a
universal social insurance program
serving 40 million elderly or disabled
Americans.

As polls and studies have found,
Medicare is the most successful and
popular health insurance program
because it's equally,

universally available anywhere in the
country to everyone older than 65 or
disabled, no matter their income.

The "reform" legislation would virtually
shut out benefits for the more affluent
while providing special consideration
for the very poor,

thus requiring means testing,
perhaps for every beneficiary,
for the first time in the program's history.

This would mean the end of universality.

Even so, there would be huge gaps in coverage.

In addition, the legislation would not
only encourage private insurance
companies to sell prescription drug
coverage,

the House version would help beneficiaries
pay the premiums to lure them to sign up
for a better deal with private insurance
and desert Medicare.

The intended result is the demise of Medicare,
which leaves health care for the nation's elderly
in the hands of dozens of private insurance and
drug companies.

While Medicare's opponents may take
cover in ideology in the debate over
these larger issues,

ideology can't explain the myriad
outrages buried in the 800 pages
of the legislation that would cost
the taxpayers unnecessary billions
and pick the pockets of the sickest
and oldest among us.

One extraordinary example is a provision
prohibiting the government from saving
money by using its buying power to
negotiate volume discounts with
drug companies to get the best
prices on drugs for beneficiaries.

Indeed, the legislation would exempt
drug companies from the cost controls
that govern every other Medicare provider -
doctors, hospitals and laboratories.

If you think that the $58 million in drug
company campaign contributions over
the past few years had anything to do
with the provision, shame on you.

Rep. Michael Bilirakis (R-Fla.),
who chairs the House Energy and
Commerce subcommittee on health,

told the New York Times that if
Medicare pooled its purchasing power,

it would amount to "a form of price controls.

That's not America."

Funny, but the VA health care system
routinely uses its buying power to negotiate
the best prices for the drugs it dispenses
to veterans and has saved the government
$100 million over the last two years.

Fact is, the drug industry would not have permitted any prescription benefit
to pass if it included cost controls. And Bilirakis raked in $152,000 in
drug company contributions.

Which means the drug industry is getting what it paid for. Now that's
America.

Currently, Medicare pays the entire cost of clinical lab tests and home
health care ordered by a doctor and approved by Medicare. But Gottlich says
the fine print of the Medicare bill would require all beneficiaries to pay
20 percent of the often high costs of blood, urine and other tests.
Beneficiaries without supplemental coverage may be forced to make a choice -
pay or go without the tests that could save their lives. The new co-payment,
which would likely drive up the cost of supplemental policies, will be on
top of new premiums.

But the meanest blow is a new co-payment for home health care, which is used
mostly by the oldest, sickest and poorest patients who are too frail to
leave their beds. "They'll have to come up with cash to pay the fees [around
$50] or lose the care," said Gottlich.

To its credit, AARP, which usually tries to work out a compromise, has drawn
a line in the sand. In letters to House and Senate leaders, AARP chief
William Novelli protested the gaps in coverage, the unfairness toward
enrollees in traditional Medicare, and the measures to privatize or
introduce means testing in Medicare. And he said, if "the final conference
does more harm than good, we will not hesitate to oppose it." But some
Medicare advocates worry that lines in sand disappear as the political winds
blow.

Write to Saul Friedman, Newsday, 235 Pinelawn Rd., Melville, NY, 11747-4250,
or by e-mail at ***@comcast.net.
Copyright © 2003, Newsday, Inc.



Jobs | Homes | Cars
















But the meanest blow is a new
co-payment for home health care,

which is used mostly by the oldest,
sickest and poorest patients who
are too frail to leave their beds.

"They'll have to come up with cash to
pay the fees [around $50] or lose the care,"

said Gottlich.
http://www.newsday.com/news/health/ny-saul3470635sep27,0,401108.column?coll=
GRAY MATTERS: Ideology and Meanness in Medicare Debate
September 27, 2003


Perhaps the best thing
Medicare's friends can hope for,
short of a political miracle,
is that the House-Senate conference
committee,

which is laboring on legislation to
provide a prescription drug benefit,
will come up with nothing.

For as it now stands,

any legislation that is likely to emerge
based on the bills passed in June by
the House and Senate would be
hopelessly inadequate,

too costly and too complicated
for most Medicare beneficiaries.

I doubt that the members of Congress
who are writing it could explain it to their
aging parents.

More important, the legislation is a kind
of pact with the devil, for the price of a
paltry drug benefit is the eventual privatization
and death of Medicare.

"We'd be better off with no bill at all,"

said Vicki Gottlich,

Washington representative for the
Center for Medicare Advocacy.

"As it now stands, the bill would privatize Medicare,
while cutting benefits, and sharply raising premiums
and co-payments."

Lobbyists for AARP,
who have a way of seeing the
glass half full when it's virtually dry,

say they are

"pleased with the progress of the bills,
but they still need improvement."

And AARP has launched a campaign
to urge members of Congress to "fix"
the bill and pass it.

But AARP's own analysis demonstrates that
the bills are unfixable unless hard-right
Republican leaders and Medicare's
opponents quit trying to kill the program,
or Democrats and Medicare advocates
retreat from their determination to save
the nation's only universal health insurance program.

There will be time for a closer
examination of the legislation as
the 17-member Conference Committee
plods on.

But the devils,
as AARP points out,
are not merely in the details.

There are vital issues of principle that
are the foundation of Medicare as a
universal social insurance program
serving 40 million elderly or disabled
Americans.

As polls and studies have found,
Medicare is the most successful and
popular health insurance program
because it's equally,

universally available anywhere in the
country to everyone older than 65 or
disabled, no matter their income.

The "reform" legislation would virtually
shut out benefits for the more affluent
while providing special consideration
for the very poor,

thus requiring means testing,
perhaps for every beneficiary,
for the first time in the program's history.

This would mean the end of universality.

Even so, there would be huge gaps in coverage.

In addition, the legislation would not
only encourage private insurance
companies to sell prescription drug
coverage,

the House version would help beneficiaries
pay the premiums to lure them to sign up
for a better deal with private insurance
and desert Medicare.

The intended result is the demise of Medicare,
which leaves health care for the nation's elderly
in the hands of dozens of private insurance and
drug companies.

While Medicare's opponents may take
cover in ideology in the debate over
these larger issues,

ideology can't explain the myriad
outrages buried in the 800 pages
of the legislation that would cost
the taxpayers unnecessary billions
and pick the pockets of the sickest
and oldest among us.

One extraordinary example is a provision
prohibiting the government from saving
money by using its buying power to
negotiate volume discounts with
drug companies to get the best
prices on drugs for beneficiaries.

Indeed, the legislation would exempt
drug companies from the cost controls
that govern every other Medicare provider -
doctors, hospitals and laboratories.

If you think that the $58 million in drug
company campaign contributions over
the past few years had anything to do
with the provision, shame on you.

Rep. Michael Bilirakis (R-Fla.),
who chairs the House Energy and
Commerce subcommittee on health,

told the New York Times that if
Medicare pooled its purchasing power,

it would amount to "a form of price controls.

That's not America."

Funny, but the VA health care system
routinely uses its buying power to negotiate
the best prices for the drugs it dispenses
to veterans and has saved the government
$100 million over the last two years.

Fact is,
the drug industry would not have
permitted any prescription benefit
to pass if it included cost controls.

And Bilirakis raked in $152,000
in drug company contributions.

Which means the drug industry
is getting what it paid for.

Now that's America.

Currently,
Medicare pays the entire cost of
clinical lab tests and home health
care ordered by a doctor and
approved by Medicare.

But Gottlich says the fine print of the Medicare
bill would require all beneficiaries to pay
20 percent of the often high costs of blood,
urine and other tests.

Beneficiaries without supplemental
coverage may be forced to make a choice -
pay or go without the tests that could save their lives.

The new co-payment,
which would likely drive up
the cost of supplemental policies,
will be on top of new premiums.

But the meanest blow is a new
co-payment for home health care,

which is used mostly by the oldest,
sickest and poorest patients who
are too frail toleave their beds.

"They'll have to come up with cash to
pay the fees [around $50] or lose the care,"

said Gottlich.

To its credit, AARP,
which usually tries to work out a
compromise, has drawn a line in
the sand.

In letters to House and Senate leaders, AARP chief
William Novelli protested the gaps in coverage,
the unfairness toward enrollees in traditional Medicare,
and the measures to privatize or introduce means
testing in Medicare.

And he said, if

"the final conference does more harm than good,
we will not hesitate to oppose it."

But some Medicare advocates worry
that lines in sand disappear as the
political winds
blow.

Write to Saul Friedman, Newsday, 235 Pinelawn Rd., Melville, NY, 11747-4250,
or by e-mail at ***@comcast.net.



http://www.newsday.com/news/health/ny-saul3470635sep27,0,401108.column?coll=
ny-health-headlines

GRAY MATTERS: Ideology and Meanness in Medicare Debate
September 27, 2003


Perhaps the best thing
Medicare's friends can hope for,
short of a political miracle,
is that the House-Senate conference
committee,

which is laboring on legislation to
provide a prescription drug benefit,
will come up with nothing.

For as it now stands,

any legislation that is likely to emerge
based on the bills passed in June by
the House and Senate would be
hopelessly inadequate,

too costly and too complicated
for most Medicare beneficiaries.

I doubt that the members of Congress
who are writing it could explain it to their
aging parents.

More important, the legislation is a kind
of pact with the devil, for the price of a
paltry drug benefit is the eventual privatization
and death of Medicare.

"We'd be better off with no bill at all,"

said Vicki Gottlich,

Washington representative for the
Center for Medicare Advocacy.

"As it now stands, the bill would privatize Medicare,
while cutting benefits, and sharply raising premiums
and co-payments."

Lobbyists for AARP,
who have a way of seeing the
glass half full when it's virtually dry,

say they are

"pleased with the progress of the bills,
but they still need improvement."

And AARP has launched a campaign
to urge members of Congress to "fix"
the bill and pass it.

But AARP's own analysis demonstrates that
the bills are unfixable unless hard-right
Republican leaders and Medicare's
opponents quit trying to kill the program,
or Democrats and Medicare advocates
retreat from their determination to save
the nation's only universal health insurance program.

There will be time for a closer
examination of the legislation as
the 17-member Conference Committee
plods on.

But the devils,
as AARP points out,
are not merely in the details.

There are vital issues of principle that
are the foundation of Medicare as a
universal social insurance program
serving 40 million elderly or disabled
Americans.

As polls and studies have found,
Medicare is the most successful and
popular health insurance program
because it's equally,

universally available anywhere in the
country to everyone older than 65 or
disabled, no matter their income.

The "reform" legislation would virtually
shut out benefits for the more affluent
while providing special consideration
for the very poor,

thus requiring means testing,
perhaps for every beneficiary,
for the first time in the program's history.

This would mean the end of universality.

Even so, there would be huge gaps in coverage.

In addition, the legislation would not
only encourage private insurance
companies to sell prescription drug
coverage,

the House version would help beneficiaries
pay the premiums to lure them to sign up
for a better deal with private insurance
and desert Medicare.

The intended result is the demise of Medicare,
which leaves health care for the nation's elderly
in the hands of dozens of private insurance and
drug companies.

While Medicare's opponents may take
cover in ideology in the debate over
these larger issues,

ideology can't explain the myriad
outrages buried in the 800 pages
of the legislation that would cost
the taxpayers unnecessary billions
and pick the pockets of the sickest
and oldest among us.

One extraordinary example is a provision
prohibiting the government from saving
money by using its buying power to
negotiate volume discounts with
drug companies to get the best
prices on drugs for beneficiaries.

Indeed, the legislation would exempt
drug companies from the cost controls
that govern every other Medicare provider -
doctors, hospitals and laboratories.

If you think that the $58 million in drug
company campaign contributions over
the past few years had anything to do
with the provision, shame on you.

Rep. Michael Bilirakis (R-Fla.),
who chairs the House Energy and
Commerce subcommittee on health,

told the New York Times that if
Medicare pooled its purchasing power,

it would amount to "a form of price controls.

That's not America."

Funny, but the VA health care system
routinely uses its buying power to negotiate
the best prices for the drugs it dispenses
to veterans and has saved the government
$100 million over the last two years.

Fact is, the drug industry would not have permitted any prescription benefit
to pass if it included cost controls. And Bilirakis raked in $152,000 in
drug company contributions.

Which means the drug industry is getting what it paid for. Now that's
America.

Currently, Medicare pays the entire cost of clinical lab tests and home
health care ordered by a doctor and approved by Medicare. But Gottlich says
the fine print of the Medicare bill would require all beneficiaries to pay
20 percent of the often high costs of blood, urine and other tests.
Beneficiaries without supplemental coverage may be forced to make a choice -
pay or go without the tests that could save their lives. The new co-payment,
which would likely drive up the cost of supplemental policies, will be on
top of new premiums.

But the meanest blow is a new co-payment for home health care, which is used
mostly by the oldest, sickest and poorest patients who are too frail to
leave their beds. "They'll have to come up with cash to pay the fees [around
$50] or lose the care," said Gottlich.

To its credit, AARP, which usually tries to work out a compromise, has drawn
a line in the sand. In letters to House and Senate leaders, AARP chief
William Novelli protested the gaps in coverage, the unfairness toward
enrollees in traditional Medicare, and the measures to privatize or
introduce means testing in Medicare. And he said, if "the final conference
does more harm than good, we will not hesitate to oppose it." But some
Medicare advocates worry that lines in sand disappear as the political winds
blow.

Write to Saul Friedman, Newsday, 235 Pinelawn Rd., Melville, NY, 11747-4250,
or by e-mail at ***@comcast.net.
Copyright © 2003, Newsday, Inc.



Jobs | Homes | Cars
torresD
2003-09-28 15:27:25 UTC
Permalink
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3138232.stm
US inequality gap widens

By Steve Schifferes
BBC News Online economics reporter

Money has to stretch further for most Americans
The gap between rich and poor in America
is the widest in 70 years, according to a new
study published by the Center for Budget
and Policy Priorities.

The research, based on newly released
figures from the non-partisan Congressional
Budget Office,

shows that the top 1% of Americans -
who earn an average of $862,000
each after tax (or $1.3m before tax) -
receive more money than the 110m
Americans in the bottom 40% of the
income distribution,

whose income averages $21,350 each year.

The income going to the richest 1% has
gone up threefold in real terms in the past
twenty years, while the income of the poorest
40% went up by a more modest 11%.


The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades

In 1979, the top 1% received just
7.5% of national income, compared
to 15.5% in 2000.

The share of the poorest 40%,
in contrast, declined from 19.1% to 14.6%.

Tax cuts and earnings

In fact, the share of income received by
bottom 80% of Americans declined in
the past twenty years.

INCOMES OF RICH AND POOR
Bottom 20%: 1979 - $12,600
2000 - $13,700
Middle 20%: 1979 - $36,400
2000 - $41,900
Top 20%: 1979: $84,000
2000: $141,400
Top 1%: 1979 $286,300
2000: $862,700
After-tax household income
source: Center for Budget and Policy Priorities, CBO.
Only the top fifth increased their share, with their real incomes going up
by 68%.

Much of the growth in income at the top
has come from the extraordinary growth
in executive pay,

coupled with strong earnings growth
among highly-educated professionals
like doctors and lawyers.

But changes in the tax system have also favoured the rich.

US INCOME DISTRIBUTION
Bottom 20%: 4.9%
Second 20%: 9.7%
Middle 20%: 14.6%
Fourth 20%: 20.2%
Top 20%: 51.3%
Top 1%: 15.5%
% share of total after-tax income
source: Center for Budget and Policy Priorities, CBO.

The effective Federal tax rate on the
top 1% dropped from 37% in 1979 to
33.2% in 2000.

The tax rate for the middle fifth of the
income distribution also went down,
but by less, from 18.6% to 16.7%.

The two big tax cuts passed by the
Bush administration in 2001 and 2003 -
which are not taken into account in this study -
will increase that inequality further.

According to the Urban Institute-Brookings
Tax Policy Center,

the top 1% will gain on
average 4.6% in after-tax income
(or $26,000 per household) while the
middle fifth of the population gains
only 2.6% ($676 per household).

The fall in the stock market since 2000,
however, has reduced the income of the rich.

Political debate

Rising inequality, and the growing budget deficit,
has sparked a debate among Democrats over
whether to repeal those tax cuts.

Two candidates on the left of the Democratic Party,
Howard Dean and Richard Gephardt,
advocate repealing all the tax cuts and
using the money on providing extra benefits,
like universal health care, instead.

But moderate Democrats want to
preserve tax cuts for middle-income
Americans.

"The middle class is stressed today,"

said Senator Joe Lieberman in a
recent Democratic presidential debate.

Republicans, meanwhile,
argue that giving more money to the rich
will encourage job creation and enrich
everyone in the end.

They point with pride to the growing number
of millionaires in the US, which demonstrates
that social mobility is still possible.

One factor in the political equation is that,
with a low turnout in most US elections,
the poor are much less likely to vote
than the better-off.

The CBPP study looked at after tax
incomes of the US population in 1979,
1989, and 2000, peaks of the economic
cycle, using new data on top incomes
released by the Congressional Budget Office.

A separate study by the National Bureau
for Economic Research studied the
income share of the top 1% from
1913 to the present.
Jorobillo Jiribilla
2003-09-28 17:53:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by torresD
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
Yesss! And how sweet it is!

Did you know that Envy is one of the "Seven Deadly Sins", woman?

Why don't you stop trying to stir up flame wars and go do your neglected
Sunday chores?

<chop!>
Super Duty
2003-09-28 01:52:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by torresD
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
------------------------------------------------

The US has the largest and most technologically powerful economy in the
world, with a per capita GDP of $37,600. In this market-oriented economy,
private individuals and business firms make most of the decisions, and the
federal and state governments buy needed goods and services predominantly in
the private marketplace. US business firms enjoy considerably greater
flexibility than their counterparts in Western Europe and Japan in decisions
to expand capital plant, lay off surplus workers, and develop new products.
At the same time, they face higher barriers to entry in their rivals' home
markets than the barriers to entry of foreign firms in US markets. US firms
are at or near the forefront in technological advances, especially in
computers and in medical, aerospace, and military equipment, although their
advantage has narrowed since the end of World War II. The onrush of
technology largely explains the gradual development of a "two-tier labor
market" in which those at the bottom lack the education and the
professional/technical skills of those at the top and, more and more, fail
to get comparable pay raises, health insurance coverage, and other benefits.
Since 1975, practically all the gains in household income have gone to the
top 20% of households. The years 1994-2000 witnessed solid increases in real
output, low inflation rates, and a drop in unemployment to below 5%. The
year 2001 saw the end of boom psychology and performance, with output
increasing only 0.3% and unemployment and business failures rising
substantially. The response to the terrorist attacks of 11 September 2001
showed the remarkable resilience of the economy. Moderate recovery took
place in 2002, with the GDP growth rate rising to 2.45%. A major short-term
problem in first half 2002 was a sharp decline in the stock market, fueled
in part by the exposure of dubious accounting practices in some major
corporations. The war in March/April 2003 between a US-led coalition and
Iraq shifted resources to military industries and introduced uncertainties
about investment and employment in other sectors of the economy. Long-term
problems include inadequate investment in economic infrastructure, rapidly
rising medical and pension costs of an aging population, sizable trade
deficits, and stagnation of family income in the lower economic groups.
Observador
2003-09-28 03:32:17 UTC
Permalink
ALL the "poor" want is to eventually live in one of the following "Zip Code$"
Forbes

The most expensive ZIP codes in America

Just how tony is your neighborhood? Jupiter Island, Florida ranks No. 1 with a median home price of
$5.6 million.


By Forbes

Read the story.

The most expensive ZIP codes
ZIP Community Median price 2002
33455 Jupiter Island $5,600,000
81611 Aspen $2,600,000
31561 Sea Island $2,232,000
33480 Palm Beach $2,200,000
11771 Centre Island $2,000,000
81435 Mountain Village $1,925,000
94010 Hillsborough $1,850,000
92067 Rancho Santa Fe $1,700,000
11545 Upper/Old Brookville $1,700,000
94957 Ross $1,620,750
60611 Near North Side, Chicago $1,390,000
10577 Purchase $1,348,000
92662 Balboa Island $1,325,000
94027 Atherton $1,293,000
94528 Diablo $1,267,500
94028 Portola Valley $1,250,000
90402 Santa Monica $1,250,000
02114 Beacon Hill $1,135,000
93108 Montecito $1,122,500
94024 Los Altos $1,100,000
95030 Los Gatos $1,084,500
96714 Hanalei $1,067,500
77019 River Oaks $1,065,000
90210 Beverly Hills $1,042,500
94920 Belvedere Tiburon $1,010,000
94022 Los Altos $1,000,000
95070 Saratoga $995,000
94507 Alamo $961,250
33921 Boca Grande $960,000
10580 Rye $950,000
11962 Sagaponack $915,000
92657 Newport Coast $914,750
60043 Kenilworth $912,500
94946 Nicasio $885,000
94010 Burlingame $880,000
90272 Pacific Palisades $870,000
98039 Medina $860,000
92661 Newport Beach $845,000
90266 Manhattan Beach $844,000
90274 Palos Verdes Peninsula $837,500
93953 Pebble Beach $823,000
92625 Corona Del Mar $820,000
94123 San Francisco $818,500
11959 Quogue $815,000
10506 Bedford $806,250
93921 Carmel $794,000
90077 Bel Air $790,000
94904 Greenbrae $780,000
94301 Palo Alto $780,000
91108 San Marino $780,000
10504 Armonk $776,500
10576 Pound Ridge $775,000
92651 Laguna Beach $765,000
94563 Orinda $757,000
10528 Harrison $756,500
94705 Berkeley $755,000
90265 Malibu $755,000
92118 Coronado $750,000
94062 Redwood City $750,000
94402 San Mateo $749,000
60022 Glencoe $748,000
11976 Water Mill $748,000
10538 Larchmont $747,500
92660 Newport Beach $740,000
94506 Danville $737,000
94114 San Francisco $735,000
10021 New York $727,500
11724 Cold Spring Harbor $725,000
94939 Larkspur $725,000
94118 San Francisco $723,001
10583 Scarsdale $717,500
92861 Villa Park $717,500
94941 Mill Valley $717,000
29482 Sullivans Island $712,550
90211 Beverly Hills $700,000
90049 Brentwood $700,000
95120 San Jose $700,000
93923 Carmel $695,000
95014 Cupertino $685,000
08738 Mantoloking $683,250
94127 San Francisco $682,000
90212 Beverly Hills $680,000
92037 La Jolla $680,000
95032 Los Gatos $680,000
94306 Palo Alto $679,000
92014 Del Mar $678,750
94549 Lafayette $675,500
10708 Bronxville $675,000
33149 Key Biscayne $674,750
93924 Carmel Valley $665,000
92091 Rancho Santa Fe $665,000
60093 Winnetka $665,000
94970 Stinson Beach $663,750
94030 Millbrae $661,250
91011 La Canada Flintridge $659,000
94025 Menlo Park $654,000
33924 Captiva $650,000
94707 Berkeley $647,000
10514 Chappaqua $647,000
94002 Belmont $646,000
95618 El Macero $645,000
94133 San Francisco $645,000
91302 Calabasas $642,000
94070 San Carlos $641,000
10968 Piermont $640,000
90275 Rancho Palos Verdes $639,000
93109 Santa Barbara $637,000
60045 Lake Forest $636,250
94121 San Francisco $635,500
95046 San Martin $630,000
93066 Somis $630,000
11978 Westhampton Beach $630,000
21036 Dayton $628,970
94087 Sunnyvale $628,500
94556 Moraga $628,000
94925 Corte Madera $625,000
91436 Encino $625,000
94115 San Francisco $623,000
94018 El Granada $615,000
10023 New York $612,500
94611 Oakland $609,000
94526 Danville $606,500
22066 Great Falls $605,000
94708 Berkeley $600,000
10022 New York $600,000
94618 Oakland $600,000
94574 Saint Helena $600,000
94960 San Anselmo $600,000
21153 Stevenson $600,000
94040 Mountain View $598,250
10803 Pelham $598,000
94065 Redwood City $598,000
93908 Salinas $598,000
20854 Potomac $597,750
11930 Amagansett $595,000
10510 Briarcliff Manor $586,000
92130 San Diego $585,000
95135 San Jose $585,000
19085 Villanova $584,900
94117 San Francisco $584,500
94019 Half Moon Bay $582,000
90254 Hermosa Beach $580,000
94901 San Rafael $579,000
94122 San Francisco $575,000
94131 San Francisco $575,000
60029 Golf $572,500
90048 Los Angeles $570,000
95033 Los Gatos $570,000
94041 Mountain View $570,000
94539 Fremont $565,000
85253 Paradise Valley $565,000
94061 Redwood City $565,000
95129 San Jose $565,000
21794 West Friendship $564,690
94937 Inverness $561,936
94116 San Francisco $561,500
90036 Los Angeles $561,000
93441 Los Olivos $560,000
10028 New York $560,000
94923 Bodega Bay $559,000
89011 Henderson $555,000
96821 Honolulu $555,000
94566 Pleasanton $555,000
94107 San Francisco $555,000
93111 Santa Barbara $555,000
95442 Glen Ellen $554,500
10533 Irvington $552,500
98040 Mercer Island $552,500
90068 Los Angeles $550,000
90027 Los Angeles $549,500
94037 Montara $549,000
22039 Fairfax Station $548,500
92106 San Diego $548,500
11932 Bridgehampton $547,500
94038 Moss Beach $547,500
92663 Newport Beach $545,000
94903 San Rafael $542,500
21405 Annapolis $540,000
95066 Scotts Valley $540,000
92075 Solana Beach $540,000
20818 Cabin John $536,000
94924 Bolinas $535,000
10024 New York $535,000
10570 Pleasantville $535,000
94583 San Ramon $535,000
94965 Sausalito $535,000
10706 Hastings On Hudson $533,000
33156 Miami $532,500
11975 Wainscott $532,500
94949 Novato $532,000
95073 Soquel $532,000
10804 New Rochelle $530,000
94109 San Francisco $530,000
94132 San Francisco $530,000
95125 San Jose $530,000
90290 Topanga $530,000
22101 Mc Lean $529,900
11977 Westhampton $528,250
94403 San Mateo $528,000
20816 Bethesda $527,500
10536 Katonah $527,500
10605 White Plains $526,500
94404 San Mateo $525,000
92127 San Diego $523,500
94110 San Francisco $523,500
20815 Chevy Chase $522,500
93110 Santa Barbara $522,500
95497 The Sea Ranch $519,000
90056 Los Angeles $518,500
92679 Trabuco Canyon $517,000
96822 Honolulu $516,550
90291 Venice $515,500
94552 Castro Valley $515,000
10709 Eastchester $515,000
95746 Granite Bay $515,000
93950 Pacific Grove $515,000
93460 Santa Ynez $515,000
94598 Walnut Creek $515,000
95003 Aptos $514,000
10560 North Salem $512,500
11739 Great River $510,000
98112 Seattle $509,000
19035 Gladwyne $507,875
92007 Cardiff By The Sea $505,000
94951 Penngrove $505,000
90740 Seal Beach $505,000
60521 Hinsdale $501,250
60091 Wilmette $501,000

Sources: DataQuick Information Systems of La Jolla, Calif.; Palm Beach Association of Realtors; the
Northwest Multiple Listing Service; the Long Island Board of Realtors; Multiple Listing Service of
Long Island; the Chicago Association of Realtors/the Multiple Listing Service of Northern Illinois;
the San Diego Association of Realtors; the Corcoran Group; the Houston Association of Realtors;
Newport County Association of Realtors; Aspen Board of Realtors; Bill Fandel of Telluride
Properties, the Telluride Association of Realtors; the California Association of Realtors; Jupiter -
Tequesta - Hobe Sound Association of Realtors; Realtors Association of Maui; Greenwich Association
of Realtors; Miller Samuel Douglas Elliman Manhattan Market Report; Sea Island Company; LINK,
Listing Information Network
Post by torresD
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3138232.stm
US inequality gap widens
By Steve Schifferes
BBC News Online economics reporter
Money has to stretch further for most Americans
The gap between rich and poor in America
is the widest in 70 years, according to a new
study published by the Center for Budget
and Policy Priorities.
The research, based on newly released
figures from the non-partisan Congressional
Budget Office,
shows that the top 1% of Americans -
who earn an average of $862,000
each after tax (or $1.3m before tax) -
receive more money than the 110m
Americans in the bottom 40% of the
income distribution,
whose income averages $21,350 each year.
The income going to the richest 1% has
gone up threefold in real terms in the past
twenty years, while the income of the poorest
40% went up by a more modest 11%.
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
In 1979, the top 1% received just
7.5% of national income, compared
to 15.5% in 2000.
The share of the poorest 40%,
in contrast, declined from 19.1% to 14.6%.
Tax cuts and earnings
In fact, the share of income received by
bottom 80% of Americans declined in
the past twenty years.
INCOMES OF RICH AND POOR
Bottom 20%: 1979 - $12,600
2000 - $13,700
Middle 20%: 1979 - $36,400
2000 - $41,900
Top 20%: 1979: $84,000
2000: $141,400
Top 1%: 1979 $286,300
2000: $862,700
After-tax household income
source: Center for Budget and Policy Priorities, CBO.
Only the top fifth increased their share, with their real incomes going up
by 68%.
Much of the growth in income at the top
has come from the extraordinary growth
in executive pay,
coupled with strong earnings growth
among highly-educated professionals
like doctors and lawyers.
But changes in the tax system have also favoured the rich.
US INCOME DISTRIBUTION
Bottom 20%: 4.9%
Second 20%: 9.7%
Middle 20%: 14.6%
Fourth 20%: 20.2%
Top 20%: 51.3%
Top 1%: 15.5%
% share of total after-tax income
source: Center for Budget and Policy Priorities, CBO.
The effective Federal tax rate on the
top 1% dropped from 37% in 1979 to
33.2% in 2000.
The tax rate for the middle fifth of the
income distribution also went down,
but by less, from 18.6% to 16.7%.
The two big tax cuts passed by the
Bush administration in 2001 and 2003 -
which are not taken into account in this study -
will increase that inequality further.
According to the Urban Institute-Brookings
Tax Policy Center,
the top 1% will gain on
average 4.6% in after-tax income
(or $26,000 per household) while the
middle fifth of the population gains
only 2.6% ($676 per household).
The fall in the stock market since 2000,
however, has reduced the income of the rich.
Political debate
Rising inequality, and the growing budget deficit,
has sparked a debate among Democrats over
whether to repeal those tax cuts.
Two candidates on the left of the Democratic Party,
Howard Dean and Richard Gephardt,
advocate repealing all the tax cuts and
using the money on providing extra benefits,
like universal health care, instead.
But moderate Democrats want to
preserve tax cuts for middle-income
Americans.
"The middle class is stressed today,"
said Senator Joe Lieberman in a
recent Democratic presidential debate.
Republicans, meanwhile,
argue that giving more money to the rich
will encourage job creation and enrich
everyone in the end.
They point with pride to the growing number
of millionaires in the US, which demonstrates
that social mobility is still possible.
One factor in the political equation is that,
with a low turnout in most US elections,
the poor are much less likely to vote
than the better-off.
The CBPP study looked at after tax
incomes of the US population in 1979,
1989, and 2000, peaks of the economic
cycle, using new data on top incomes
released by the Congressional Budget Office.
A separate study by the National Bureau
for Economic Research studied the
income share of the top 1% from
1913 to the present.
Ruhig
2003-09-28 03:36:07 UTC
Permalink
Are you one of those being fucked, or is it the lack of it what makes you so
embittered against the country that feeds your big ungratefu mouth?

Si Fifus Tyrannus Brutus est,
Plus bruti seguitori sui sunt.

Y para los que no saben latín macarrónico.

Si Fifo es un tirano bestia,
Más bestias son los seguidores.
pedro martori
2003-09-28 05:45:45 UTC
Permalink
Centroamericanos residentes en Estados Unidos envian mas de 5,000 millones de dolares anuales a sus paises. Mexicanos residentes en Estados Unidos envian una suma proporcionalmente mayor.
Pastores por la Paz y otras organizaciones cristianas llevan anualmente al gobierno de Fidel Castro varios millones de dolares en donaciones.
Los propios exilados cubanos envian mas de mil millones de dolares a Cuba.
El gobierno de los Estados Unidos distribuyen anualmente varias decenas de miles de millones de dolares en ayuda a paises de Africa, Asia y Latino America.
Diariamente emigran a Estados Unidos, legal e ilegalmente, miles de personas que segun los voceros en defensa de dicha emigracion consiguen trabajo en su mayoria.
Sin embargo el articulo que a continuacion reproducimos menciona que en Estados Unidos existen 35 millones de personas pobres, que significa escasez de trabajo y desempleo.
¿Si hay esa pobreza, porque de esa estampida de emigrantes, que incluso hace que el presidente FOX de Mexico pida a Bush que le de via verde?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

EU tiene más de 35 millones de pobres

Victoria Infante
Reportera de La Opinión

27 de septiembre de 2003

El nivel de pobreza en el país aumentó por segundo año consecutivo, y pasó del 11.7% en 2001 al 12.1% en 2002, informó la Oficina del Censo ayer y estableció el número de pobres en más de 35 millones. Eso significa que el año pasado 1.7 millones de estadounidenses se sumaron a la lista de personas pobres, en comparación con las cifras de 2001. Más de 35 millones de personas, según los datos de 2002, vivían en la pobreza en Estados Unidos. Entre los latinos, que tienen una tasa de pobreza del 21.8%, unos 315 mil se sumaron a las personas que viven en la “extrema” pobreza.La oficina también reveló que el ingreso promedio en los hogares estadounidenses bajó un 1.1% el año pasado, a 42,409 dólares anuales. Es decir que la mitad de todos los hogares perciben más de esa cantidad y la otra mitad menos.El nivel de pobreza aumentó de nuevo después de haber caído por casi una década al 11.3% en 2000, el nivel más bajo en más de 25 años. Los niveles de ingreso se incrementaron durante casi toda la década de los 90, luego se estabilizaron en 2000 y cayeron de nuevo en los dos últimos años.“Han sido varios factores los que han influido, entre otros la desaceleración económica provocada por los ataques terroristas del 11 de septiembre, lo que, a su vez, afectó al sector turístico y muchas personas perdieron sus trabajos. También ha influido el crecimiento de la industria manufacturera china”, explicó Jack Kyser, economista jefe de la Corporación para el Desarrollo Económico del Condado de Los Angeles (LAEDC).En California, dijo el economista, muchos de los trabajos perdidos eran desempeñados por latinos.Otros factores que también han influido en el aumento del nivel de pobreza en el país es la llegada de inmigrantes indocumentados con un nivel de preparación bajo, dijo Kyser.Otros analistas consideran que ésta es la peor situación que el país ha experimentado en los últimos 30 años, y es posible que cada vez haya más gente sumida en la pobreza porque la economía no está generando empleos.Los expertos han vaticinado que el aumento del desempleo del año pasado y la todavía inestable economía aumentará la pobreza y disminuirá el ingreso para la mayoría de la gente, a pesar de que oficialmente la recesión terminó en noviembre de 2001.“La recuperación será más lenta de lo que cualquiera quisiera. Los negocios serán muy cautelosos para hacer cualquier movimiento”, advirtió Kyser.
Daniel Weinberg, estadista de la Oficina del Censo, dijo que los cambios entre 2001 y 2002 fueron consistentes con los cambios de pasadas recesiones.“El punto más alto en el ciclo de pobreza y el punto más bajo en el ingreso tienden a venir en el año después de la recesión”, dijo en una conferencia de prensa que se efectuó ayer en la sede de las oficinas del censo en Suitland, Maryland.Los datos del censo también indicaron que el número de personas en situación de pobreza severa aumentó de 13.4 millones en 2001 a 14.1 en 2002, y el número de individuos que se encuentran justo en el umbral de la pobreza, 12.5 millones, no varió.La cifra de latinos en el nivel de pobreza, 21.8 millones, tampoco cambió, según el reporte.La Oficina del Censo no ofreció información por estado; sin embargo, los datos que se dieron a conocer sugieren que el ingreso promedio de los californianos cayó un 11.5% durante dos años, de 2000 a 2002.El informe destacó, como puntos positivos, que disminuyeron tanto la desigualdad salarial como la brecha entre los salarios de los hombres y de las mujeres. Así, las mujeres, en general, ganan 77 centavos por cada dólar que reciben los hombres.
En el único estado donde aumentó el ingreso promedio fue en Oklahoma, pero bajó en lugares como Illinois, Michigan, Missouri, Ohio, Florida, Hawai y Nevada. Sólo las casas en donde la cabeza de la familia es nacida fuera del país mostraron un declive en el ingreso de 3.9%.Para blancos no latinos, el ingreso promedio bajó sólo un 0.3% el año pasado, a 46,900 dólares en 2002. En contraste, el ingreso promedio disminuyó un 3% entre los afroamericanos y un 2.9% entre los latinos.Los cálculos, elaborados anualmente por la Oficina del Censo, se basaron en una encuesta de 78 mil hogares realizada en marzo sobre ingresos y pobreza.Por primera vez en 2002, el censo permitió a los encuestados responder si pertenecían a más de una raza. Esta situación complicó la comparación de las tasas de pobreza e ingresos entre grupos raciales.En las estadísticas de 2002, el gobierno consideró pobres a las personas de menos de 65 años de edad que vivían solas y tenían ingresos de 9,359 dólares anuales o menos; y a las familias de tres miembros —entre ellos un niño— que ganaron 14,480 dólares, por ejemplo. Para una familia de cuatro personas, el nivel de pobreza son 18,244 dólares anuales.La Casa Blanca indicó que la economía creció a un ritmo del 3.3% anual durante la primavera, y que los recortes en los impuestos propuestos por el presidente George Bush tenían la intención de respaldar los ingresos y bajar el nivel de pobreza el año próximo.Los demócratas criticaron la “miopía” del gobierno, al indicar que los recortes multimillonarios de impuestos abultarán el déficit fiscal y que, desde que Bush asumió el poder en 2001, se han perdido 3.3 millones de empleos en el sector privado.Aseguraron además que la cifra de “nuevos pobres” no augura buenas noticias para un país ya afectado por los altos costos de la posguerra en Irak.El informe Encuesta de la Población Actual de la Oficina del Censo, indica “que las políticas económicas de Bush dificultan el progreso de las familias de clase media, que cargan con el peso de la mala gestión del mandatario, la peor registrada desde (el presidente) Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)”, dijo en un comunicado la líder de la minoría demócrata en la Cámara de Representantes, Nancy Pelosi.Los republicanos prefirieron destacar que el nivel de pobreza actual es “significativamente” inferior al 13.7% de 1996, cuando entró en vigor la reforma del welfare, y que no hubo cambios en el nivel de pobreza de los niños.“Es hora de aprobar más reformas [al welfare] que promuevan la creación de empleos y el fortalecimiento de las familias, para reducir aún más la pobreza”, dijo el congresista republicano Wally Herger de California.El Fondo de Defensa de los Niños (CDF) criticó nuevamente a Bush, principalmente por los exiguos fondos para programas sociales destinados a las familias pobres.El estudio indicó que más de 12,1 millones de niños viven ahora bajo el nivel de pobreza. La lista de nuevos niños pobres aumentó por unos 400 mil, la mayoría de ellos latinos (223 mil) y negros (más de 153 mil).“Nuestros niños empobrecen más mientras la Administración Bush y líderes del Congreso tratan de desmantelar las protecciones para la niñez”, para cubrir los recortes de impuestos y la posguerra en Irak, dijo Marian Wright Edelman, presidenta del CDF.Según el CDF, millones de niños en edad preescolar viven en barrios de miseria, con mayores posibilidades de acostarse sin comer o de estar expuestos a la violencia.La Oficina del Censo indicó que, del total de pobres, unos 14 millones viven prácticamente en la miseria, con salarios que no les permiten cubrir todas sus necesidades.Según el estudio, los pobres están más concentrados en el sur del país, el 13.8% de la población, mientras que en el oeste conforman el 12.4%, en la zona central el 10.3% y en el noreste, el 10.9%. (En la nota se usaron algunos datos de los servicios de La Opinión)




lavozdecubalibre.com
Post by torresD
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3138232.stm
US inequality gap widens
By Steve Schifferes
BBC News Online economics reporter
Money has to stretch further for most Americans
The gap between rich and poor in America
is the widest in 70 years, according to a new
study published by the Center for Budget
and Policy Priorities.
The research, based on newly released
figures from the non-partisan Congressional
Budget Office,
shows that the top 1% of Americans -
who earn an average of $862,000
each after tax (or $1.3m before tax) -
receive more money than the 110m
Americans in the bottom 40% of the
income distribution,
whose income averages $21,350 each year.
The income going to the richest 1% has
gone up threefold in real terms in the past
twenty years, while the income of the poorest
40% went up by a more modest 11%.
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
In 1979, the top 1% received just
7.5% of national income, compared
to 15.5% in 2000.
The share of the poorest 40%,
in contrast, declined from 19.1% to 14.6%.
Tax cuts and earnings
In fact, the share of income received by
bottom 80% of Americans declined in
the past twenty years.
INCOMES OF RICH AND POOR
Bottom 20%: 1979 - $12,600
2000 - $13,700
Middle 20%: 1979 - $36,400
2000 - $41,900
Top 20%: 1979: $84,000
2000: $141,400
Top 1%: 1979 $286,300
2000: $862,700
After-tax household income
source: Center for Budget and Policy Priorities, CBO.
Only the top fifth increased their share, with their real incomes going up
by 68%.
Much of the growth in income at the top
has come from the extraordinary growth
in executive pay,
coupled with strong earnings growth
among highly-educated professionals
like doctors and lawyers.
But changes in the tax system have also favoured the rich.
US INCOME DISTRIBUTION
Bottom 20%: 4.9%
Second 20%: 9.7%
Middle 20%: 14.6%
Fourth 20%: 20.2%
Top 20%: 51.3%
Top 1%: 15.5%
% share of total after-tax income
source: Center for Budget and Policy Priorities, CBO.
The effective Federal tax rate on the
top 1% dropped from 37% in 1979 to
33.2% in 2000.
The tax rate for the middle fifth of the
income distribution also went down,
but by less, from 18.6% to 16.7%.
The two big tax cuts passed by the
Bush administration in 2001 and 2003 -
which are not taken into account in this study -
will increase that inequality further.
According to the Urban Institute-Brookings
Tax Policy Center,
the top 1% will gain on
average 4.6% in after-tax income
(or $26,000 per household) while the
middle fifth of the population gains
only 2.6% ($676 per household).
The fall in the stock market since 2000,
however, has reduced the income of the rich.
Political debate
Rising inequality, and the growing budget deficit,
has sparked a debate among Democrats over
whether to repeal those tax cuts.
Two candidates on the left of the Democratic Party,
Howard Dean and Richard Gephardt,
advocate repealing all the tax cuts and
using the money on providing extra benefits,
like universal health care, instead.
But moderate Democrats want to
preserve tax cuts for middle-income
Americans.
"The middle class is stressed today,"
said Senator Joe Lieberman in a
recent Democratic presidential debate.
Republicans, meanwhile,
argue that giving more money to the rich
will encourage job creation and enrich
everyone in the end.
They point with pride to the growing number
of millionaires in the US, which demonstrates
that social mobility is still possible.
One factor in the political equation is that,
with a low turnout in most US elections,
the poor are much less likely to vote
than the better-off.
The CBPP study looked at after tax
incomes of the US population in 1979,
1989, and 2000, peaks of the economic
cycle, using new data on top incomes
released by the Congressional Budget Office.
A separate study by the National Bureau
for Economic Research studied the
income share of the top 1% from
1913 to the present.
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PL
2003-09-28 08:40:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by torresD
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
About all Cubans (except the elite and those working in the tourist sector)
got poorer.
14% of Cubans are undernourished.
1 in 6 people in the Eastern 5 provinces needs WFP food aid.
$120 is the average annual income.

PL
Post by torresD
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3138232.stm
US inequality gap widens
By Steve Schifferes
BBC News Online economics reporter
Money has to stretch further for most Americans
The gap between rich and poor in America
is the widest in 70 years, according to a new
study published by the Center for Budget
and Policy Priorities.
The research, based on newly released
figures from the non-partisan Congressional
Budget Office,
shows that the top 1% of Americans -
who earn an average of $862,000
each after tax (or $1.3m before tax) -
receive more money than the 110m
Americans in the bottom 40% of the
income distribution,
whose income averages $21,350 each year.
The income going to the richest 1% has
gone up threefold in real terms in the past
twenty years, while the income of the poorest
40% went up by a more modest 11%.
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
In 1979, the top 1% received just
7.5% of national income, compared
to 15.5% in 2000.
The share of the poorest 40%,
in contrast, declined from 19.1% to 14.6%.
Tax cuts and earnings
In fact, the share of income received by
bottom 80% of Americans declined in
the past twenty years.
INCOMES OF RICH AND POOR
Bottom 20%: 1979 - $12,600
2000 - $13,700
Middle 20%: 1979 - $36,400
2000 - $41,900
Top 20%: 1979: $84,000
2000: $141,400
Top 1%: 1979 $286,300
2000: $862,700
After-tax household income
source: Center for Budget and Policy Priorities, CBO.
Only the top fifth increased their share, with their real incomes going up
by 68%.
Much of the growth in income at the top
has come from the extraordinary growth
in executive pay,
coupled with strong earnings growth
among highly-educated professionals
like doctors and lawyers.
But changes in the tax system have also favoured the rich.
US INCOME DISTRIBUTION
Bottom 20%: 4.9%
Second 20%: 9.7%
Middle 20%: 14.6%
Fourth 20%: 20.2%
Top 20%: 51.3%
Top 1%: 15.5%
% share of total after-tax income
source: Center for Budget and Policy Priorities, CBO.
The effective Federal tax rate on the
top 1% dropped from 37% in 1979 to
33.2% in 2000.
The tax rate for the middle fifth of the
income distribution also went down,
but by less, from 18.6% to 16.7%.
The two big tax cuts passed by the
Bush administration in 2001 and 2003 -
which are not taken into account in this study -
will increase that inequality further.
According to the Urban Institute-Brookings
Tax Policy Center,
the top 1% will gain on
average 4.6% in after-tax income
(or $26,000 per household) while the
middle fifth of the population gains
only 2.6% ($676 per household).
The fall in the stock market since 2000,
however, has reduced the income of the rich.
Political debate
Rising inequality, and the growing budget deficit,
has sparked a debate among Democrats over
whether to repeal those tax cuts.
Two candidates on the left of the Democratic Party,
Howard Dean and Richard Gephardt,
advocate repealing all the tax cuts and
using the money on providing extra benefits,
like universal health care, instead.
But moderate Democrats want to
preserve tax cuts for middle-income
Americans.
"The middle class is stressed today,"
said Senator Joe Lieberman in a
recent Democratic presidential debate.
Republicans, meanwhile,
argue that giving more money to the rich
will encourage job creation and enrich
everyone in the end.
They point with pride to the growing number
of millionaires in the US, which demonstrates
that social mobility is still possible.
One factor in the political equation is that,
with a low turnout in most US elections,
the poor are much less likely to vote
than the better-off.
The CBPP study looked at after tax
incomes of the US population in 1979,
1989, and 2000, peaks of the economic
cycle, using new data on top incomes
released by the Congressional Budget Office.
A separate study by the National Bureau
for Economic Research studied the
income share of the top 1% from
1913 to the present.
O***@hotmail.com
2003-09-28 20:20:02 UTC
Permalink
A Perferct Example of "WISHFULL THINKING", Doris, This is The United
States of America, not some shit-hole country like cuba, venezuela
etc, where some propagandist says something and immidately the
rulingue clique mobilizes the unemployed to mount a "spontaneous"
show.
There isn't one of us americans who would change OUR america for any
other place on earth, and I dare say, You must be one of the most
hyopocrytical AND frustrated pesons living in OUR country, to see all
you wish for and hope, go up in smokes.
Post by torresD
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3138232.stm
US inequality gap widens
By Steve Schifferes
BBC News Online economics reporter
Money has to stretch further for most Americans
The gap between rich and poor in America
is the widest in 70 years, according to a new
study published by the Center for Budget
and Policy Priorities.
The research, based on newly released
figures from the non-partisan Congressional
Budget Office,
shows that the top 1% of Americans -
who earn an average of $862,000
each after tax (or $1.3m before tax) -
receive more money than the 110m
Americans in the bottom 40% of the
income distribution,
whose income averages $21,350 each year.
The income going to the richest 1% has
gone up threefold in real terms in the past
twenty years, while the income of the poorest
40% went up by a more modest 11%.
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
In 1979, the top 1% received just
7.5% of national income, compared
to 15.5% in 2000.
The share of the poorest 40%,
in contrast, declined from 19.1% to 14.6%.
Tax cuts and earnings
In fact, the share of income received by
bottom 80% of Americans declined in
the past twenty years.
INCOMES OF RICH AND POOR
Bottom 20%: 1979 - $12,600
2000 - $13,700
Middle 20%: 1979 - $36,400
2000 - $41,900
Top 20%: 1979: $84,000
2000: $141,400
Top 1%: 1979 $286,300
2000: $862,700
After-tax household income
source: Center for Budget and Policy Priorities, CBO.
Only the top fifth increased their share, with their real incomes going up
by 68%.
Much of the growth in income at the top
has come from the extraordinary growth
in executive pay,
coupled with strong earnings growth
among highly-educated professionals
like doctors and lawyers.
But changes in the tax system have also favoured the rich.
US INCOME DISTRIBUTION
Bottom 20%: 4.9%
Second 20%: 9.7%
Middle 20%: 14.6%
Fourth 20%: 20.2%
Top 20%: 51.3%
Top 1%: 15.5%
% share of total after-tax income
source: Center for Budget and Policy Priorities, CBO.
The effective Federal tax rate on the
top 1% dropped from 37% in 1979 to
33.2% in 2000.
The tax rate for the middle fifth of the
income distribution also went down,
but by less, from 18.6% to 16.7%.
The two big tax cuts passed by the
Bush administration in 2001 and 2003 -
which are not taken into account in this study -
will increase that inequality further.
According to the Urban Institute-Brookings
Tax Policy Center,
the top 1% will gain on
average 4.6% in after-tax income
(or $26,000 per household) while the
middle fifth of the population gains
only 2.6% ($676 per household).
The fall in the stock market since 2000,
however, has reduced the income of the rich.
Political debate
Rising inequality, and the growing budget deficit,
has sparked a debate among Democrats over
whether to repeal those tax cuts.
Two candidates on the left of the Democratic Party,
Howard Dean and Richard Gephardt,
advocate repealing all the tax cuts and
using the money on providing extra benefits,
like universal health care, instead.
But moderate Democrats want to
preserve tax cuts for middle-income
Americans.
"The middle class is stressed today,"
said Senator Joe Lieberman in a
recent Democratic presidential debate.
Republicans, meanwhile,
argue that giving more money to the rich
will encourage job creation and enrich
everyone in the end.
They point with pride to the growing number
of millionaires in the US, which demonstrates
that social mobility is still possible.
One factor in the political equation is that,
with a low turnout in most US elections,
the poor are much less likely to vote
than the better-off.
The CBPP study looked at after tax
incomes of the US population in 1979,
1989, and 2000, peaks of the economic
cycle, using new data on top incomes
released by the Congressional Budget Office.
A separate study by the National Bureau
for Economic Research studied the
income share of the top 1% from
1913 to the present.
Rainer Wolfcastle
2003-09-29 00:25:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by torresD
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3138232.stm
US inequality gap widens
By Steve Schifferes
BBC News Online economics reporter
Money has to stretch further for most Americans
The gap between rich and poor in America
is the widest in 70 years, according to a new
Maybe if they stopped letting illegals in then some Americans would
not be so poor & could find a job. African Americans are always
getting screwed by illegals aliens including Mexicans, Haitians,
Cubans, Brazilians, island people and others. Blacks in California
have been totally screwed and they keep voting for Democrats who leave
the borders wide open.
unknown
2003-09-29 01:22:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rainer Wolfcastle
Post by torresD
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3138232.stm
US inequality gap widens
By Steve Schifferes
BBC News Online economics reporter
Money has to stretch further for most Americans
The gap between rich and poor in America
is the widest in 70 years, according to a new
Maybe if they stopped letting illegals in then some Americans would
not be so poor & could find a job. African Americans are always
getting screwed by illegals aliens including Mexicans, Haitians,
Cubans, Brazilians, island people and others. Blacks in California
have been totally screwed and they keep voting for Democrats who leave
the borders wide open.
Not only that, but black leaders (including the NAACP) not only
support current immigration policies, they want to allow *more* folks
from Haiti and other Caribbean nations in.

Now if I were black, especially without any particular job skills and
only an inner-city public school "education", I'd say that my
"leaders" weren't doing too good of a job looking out for the 'hood.
In fact, I might descibe them as "sellouts".

In fairness, it should be pointed out that most Republicans don't want
to tighten immigration either (big business just *loves* using them,
paying coolie wages for unskilled but often back-breanking and/or
filthy jobs). So both parties are in cahoots over this.
Kafou Lobo
2003-09-29 08:13:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rainer Wolfcastle
Post by torresD
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3138232.stm
US inequality gap widens
By Steve Schifferes
BBC News Online economics reporter
Money has to stretch further for most Americans
The gap between rich and poor in America
is the widest in 70 years, according to a new
Maybe if they stopped letting illegals in then some Americans would
not be so poor & could find a job. African Americans are always
getting screwed by illegals aliens including Mexicans, Haitians,
Cubans, Brazilians, island people and others. Blacks in California
have been totally screwed and they keep voting for Democrats who leave
the borders wide open.
Thank you for having the best interests of black folks at heart.

Kafou "Beware of the naked man who offers you his shirt." Lobo
unknown
2003-09-30 00:53:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rainer Wolfcastle
Post by torresD
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3138232.stm
US inequality gap widens
By Steve Schifferes
BBC News Online economics reporter
Money has to stretch further for most Americans
The gap between rich and poor in America
is the widest in 70 years, according to a new
Maybe if they stopped letting illegals in then some Americans would
not be so poor & could find a job. African Americans are always
getting screwed by illegals aliens including Mexicans, Haitians,
Cubans, Brazilians, island people and others. Blacks in California
have been totally screwed and they keep voting for Democrats who leave
the borders wide open.
BOTH parties are equally guilty of this, but for different reasons.
Dems see only more votes. The GOP is in favor of this because Big
Business is -- they just love paying *coolie* wages to the illegals.

And black "leaders" like the NAACP support current policies too. Yep,
blacks are screwed on all sides, and will remain so until they escape
the bondage of Political Correctness that they themselves signed onto.
Observador
2003-09-29 23:21:10 UTC
Permalink
Not only USA Poor Are Fucked, But the POOR EVERYWHERE ARE FUCKED!!!!
Post by torresD
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3138232.stm
US inequality gap widens
By Steve Schifferes
BBC News Online economics reporter
Money has to stretch further for most Americans
The gap between rich and poor in America
is the widest in 70 years, according to a new
study published by the Center for Budget
and Policy Priorities.
The research, based on newly released
figures from the non-partisan Congressional
Budget Office,
shows that the top 1% of Americans -
who earn an average of $862,000
each after tax (or $1.3m before tax) -
receive more money than the 110m
Americans in the bottom 40% of the
income distribution,
whose income averages $21,350 each year.
The income going to the richest 1% has
gone up threefold in real terms in the past
twenty years, while the income of the poorest
40% went up by a more modest 11%.
The richest Americans have got richer in the past two decades
In 1979, the top 1% received just
7.5% of national income, compared
to 15.5% in 2000.
The share of the poorest 40%,
in contrast, declined from 19.1% to 14.6%.
Tax cuts and earnings
In fact, the share of income received by
bottom 80% of Americans declined in
the past twenty years.
INCOMES OF RICH AND POOR
Bottom 20%: 1979 - $12,600
2000 - $13,700
Middle 20%: 1979 - $36,400
2000 - $41,900
Top 20%: 1979: $84,000
2000: $141,400
Top 1%: 1979 $286,300
2000: $862,700
After-tax household income
source: Center for Budget and Policy Priorities, CBO.
Only the top fifth increased their share, with their real incomes going up
by 68%.
Much of the growth in income at the top
has come from the extraordinary growth
in executive pay,
coupled with strong earnings growth
among highly-educated professionals
like doctors and lawyers.
But changes in the tax system have also favoured the rich.
US INCOME DISTRIBUTION
Bottom 20%: 4.9%
Second 20%: 9.7%
Middle 20%: 14.6%
Fourth 20%: 20.2%
Top 20%: 51.3%
Top 1%: 15.5%
% share of total after-tax income
source: Center for Budget and Policy Priorities, CBO.
The effective Federal tax rate on the
top 1% dropped from 37% in 1979 to
33.2% in 2000.
The tax rate for the middle fifth of the
income distribution also went down,
but by less, from 18.6% to 16.7%.
The two big tax cuts passed by the
Bush administration in 2001 and 2003 -
which are not taken into account in this study -
will increase that inequality further.
According to the Urban Institute-Brookings
Tax Policy Center,
the top 1% will gain on
average 4.6% in after-tax income
(or $26,000 per household) while the
middle fifth of the population gains
only 2.6% ($676 per household).
The fall in the stock market since 2000,
however, has reduced the income of the rich.
Political debate
Rising inequality, and the growing budget deficit,
has sparked a debate among Democrats over
whether to repeal those tax cuts.
Two candidates on the left of the Democratic Party,
Howard Dean and Richard Gephardt,
advocate repealing all the tax cuts and
using the money on providing extra benefits,
like universal health care, instead.
But moderate Democrats want to
preserve tax cuts for middle-income
Americans.
"The middle class is stressed today,"
said Senator Joe Lieberman in a
recent Democratic presidential debate.
Republicans, meanwhile,
argue that giving more money to the rich
will encourage job creation and enrich
everyone in the end.
They point with pride to the growing number
of millionaires in the US, which demonstrates
that social mobility is still possible.
One factor in the political equation is that,
with a low turnout in most US elections,
the poor are much less likely to vote
than the better-off.
The CBPP study looked at after tax
incomes of the US population in 1979,
1989, and 2000, peaks of the economic
cycle, using new data on top incomes
released by the Congressional Budget Office.
A separate study by the National Bureau
for Economic Research studied the
income share of the top 1% from
1913 to the present.
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